On Conrad Burns' "exoneration"

Jay, what has become of the Hsu money that was given to the Tester campaign? (0.00 / 0)

---

by: Interested @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 17:24:06 PM UTC

sigh (0.00 / 0)

Man, maybe I should record this so you can play it back for yourself whenever you get confused:

Taking money is neither illegal nor unethical. Changing your vote because of the money is.

Can you tell me how Tester's votes have changed b/c of the "Hsu" money? (The money actually didn't come from Hsu. And Tester donated it to charities, I believe.)

---

by: Jay Stevens @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 17:26:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sigh....before you 'believe' it was donated to charity you better check it out! (0.00 / 0)

This is exactly how Conrad got himself into trouble and there isn't a man or woman in the United States Senate that this can't happen to. I'm certainly NOT confused on anything, I do know that a more liberal mind set than mine has the ability to spin these situations to their liking, that's been proven in the media for years. I can tell you I believe Jon Tester is doing his level best to keep his nose clean and hopefully his paws out of the cookie jar, he is our Senator now and I can live with that, he won, thanks in part to the media who planted the seeds of doubt around him. Was Burns totally innocent? Of course not but be careful how you try to spin this one Jay, Jon Tester is human like all the rest of them in D.C. and he can fall just as quickly as Burns did, hopefully that won't happen, Montana deserves better than that!

---

by: Interested @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 17:47:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah you are confused.........BIG TIME! (0.00 / 0)

Abrahamoff's OWN words:  "we got everything we wanted from sen. corndog buns"!  Now, did Hsu say this about Tester??

And lest we forget, sen. cornbread buns was a BANKRUPT radio announcer when elected.  He stiffed many people in Billings EVEN when he was raking in millions!  He set the record for lobbyist paid trips his first two years in office!  Being senator was the BEST job a ner-do-well like buns could have ever hoped for!  And you going to sit there and say that he wasn't a venal, corrupt moron out to line his own pockets?!  Well then, if that's the case, name ONE other senator W/O a college degree who was BANKRUPT at the time of his entry into the senate, who took MORE  lobby paid trips than corndog buns, and who Jackoff Abrahams liked better!  You have no argument.  

---

by: Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers! @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 18:25:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Calm down Larry, you'll pop a clot and you won't be with us anylonger and you're fun to blog with 'cause you react so well..... (0.00 / 0)

I just said Conrad wasn't totally innocent, and you don't have to go back and plow the same dirt that's already been plowed, Tester won Larry, the election is OVER, get over your same self and move on, you're just hacked off because Burns was cleared, so get back to whatever it was you were doing before I sent your blood pressure off the charts!

---

by: Interested @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 18:41:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Can't do'er. (0.00 / 0)

The damage that that idiot hick corndog buns to our great stated will outlive us all!  I will allow no revisionist history of his record.  I'm NOT ticked off because Buns was cleared.  I'm ticked off at what he did to Montana!  There IS a big difference!  

---

by: Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers! @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 21:19:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Hsu Money is Like "Abramoff" Money Tied to Max Baucus (0.00 / 0)

There's no indication of improprieties or that Hsu and Tester ever had anything remotely close to a tight-knit relationship. The problem with Hsu and Clinton was that Hsu was a major bundler for Clinton and crooked. Major campaigns raise money at a clip of tens of thousands a day (hundreds for Presidentials). Keeping track of each individual check is not realistic. Keeping track of who is doing your major fundraising work is.

Doing them legislative favors in exchange is majorly unacceptable.

---

by: Matt Singer @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 21:58:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

John Mercer and Karl Rove (0.00 / 0)

Do you suppose this all ties back to those federal prosecutors who weren't fired by the Bush administration, because they WERE politicizing their offices, and following orders? I do.

All the best

---

by: Heartland1 @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 19:27:46 PM UTC

Heartland1, before you start throwing your stuff around get the names straight to protect the innocent, it's Bill Mercer, not JOHN! (0.00 / 0)

---

by: Interested @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 19:43:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Mercer (0.00 / 0)

By all means, let's give credit where credit is due...

All the best

---

by: Heartland1 @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 21:23:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Denial (0.00 / 0)

"Burns was in deep with the corrupt DC system, and his ouster from his Senate seat was a good thing, both for Montana and the country."

The evidence of this claim was investigated by people paid to be better at it than you are - and they found nothing.

So what additional and previously unconsidered proof do you offer?  Just saying "it's so" over and over again does not a reality make - even if your rhetorical vomit is echoed by lazy reporters citing "anonymous sources".

So again, where is the evidence beyond circumstance?  Any evidence Jay?

---

by: MTSentinel @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 19:43:29 PM UTC

Oh, Sentismell, you're SO young! (0.00 / 0)

I remember ol' Corndog Buns's trip to the Kentucky Derby and the Rose Bowl game, paid for by his lobby buddies.  When aske how these were legit, he said that he was "looking for jobs" for Montanans!  BTW, did he EVER pay off those folks in Billings he stiffed along with his good buddy and now political candidate, taylor brown?  And just WHY can't the Repubbies seem to field a candidate who ISN'T bankrupt?!  That's some party you got there, Smell!

---

by: Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers! @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 21:22:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Prove it (0.00 / 0)

The evidence of this claim was investigated by people paid to ... and they found nothing.

You have no way of knowing what was investigated, the diligence of said investigation and if anything at all was even found.  None.  Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing either.  Kind of a shame, that.

But please, by all means, keep spouting falsehoods in your victory.  And I will continue to celebrate the only victory that mattered, Tester's over Burns.  

---

by: Rob Kailey @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 22:08:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Then you must know something... (0.00 / 0)

You must know something no one else knows.  I'm just asking for the evidence of guilt that you have.  Without such evidence, I'd like to know why you are withholding apologies for unsubstantiated accusations.

Just me waiting here on the couch watching some Trek...

---

by: MTSentinel @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 22:55:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What is it I'm supposed to know? (0.00 / 0)

When did I, or anyone, claim evidence of his (legal) "guilt"?  Most of us just claimed that he was scumbag.  Am I supposed to apologize for that?  'Not going to happen.

I'm "withholding apologies" because they're not deserved.

---

by: Rob Kailey @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 23:47:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You want to go there? (0.00 / 0)

You want to have a debate around Burns' integrity? Remember, I've been writing about the man for months. I've got a lot of links on file. Any time you want, I'll trot them out. Start by reading the link to the Marianas Island Labor bill, and remember, Connie changed his vote on that after receiving &5K.

---

by: Jay Stevens @ Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 01:34:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Larry is such a big man (0.00 / 0)

I've always been impressed by his ability to call people names, while shielding his own identity.

My two cents..and that's all you get...is that some of the editors in Montana (you know who I am talking about Billings Gazette) ought to be losing a lot of sleep these days, wondering about stories they okayed that now appear to have been nothing more than the wild imaginiation of Democrat party operatives in Helena.

This should prompt some journalists to rethink their sources and why they pursued this story even though it was apparent that there was nothing there. Of course it won't, because you'd have to believe your capable of making a mistake before you can have a conscience.

As for Jon Tester, he owes Conrad an apology. Lying about a man is not how you do things in Montana. He ought to be a big enough man to admit that he said some things that weren't true.

And just so you know its me...I blame this on east coast liberals and barbara streisand.

---

by: JasonKlindt @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 21:26:45 PM UTC

You're a laugh riot, Jason. (0.00 / 0)

As for Jon Tester, he owes Conrad an apology.

No, he doesn't.  It doesn't appear to me that Tester said anything about Burns that wasn't true.  Was Burns under investigation?  Why, yes, he was. Was Burns taking Abramoff money and voting favorably for the lobbyist?  Without question.  Was Burns voting in the best interests of Abramoff clients, and seemingly against the interests of Montanans in doing so?  That's been fairly well argued.  So please, Jason, show me the "lie" that you have just accused Jon Tester of telling.  Unless, of course, you're lying.

Since it appears that you are, I'm sure you'll be a big enough man to admit it ... but I won't hold my breath.  

---

by: Rob Kailey @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 22:16:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Shielding what?? (0.00 / 0)

Here I am, pal.  What am I shielding?  BTW, names like "nigger" and "raghead" are the ones Burns himself chose to use.  Can you even IMAGINE a Black child going home and asking his parents why a U.S. Senator refered to him as a "nigger"?! Or maybe a kid of Arab descent?  That's your boy, corndog buns!  The man is an uneducated racist idiot!  Guess that's what you mean by name-calling.

---

by: Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers! @ Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 22:25:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

hey, it's the Missouri mercenary! (0.00 / 0)

Welcome!

Again, I'll challenge you, Jason. You think Burns is innocent? Truly? Want to go there? Want to stake your...er...reputation on it?

Explain the vote change on the Marianas labor bill after receiving $5K. With a straight face, please. We can start with that. Then we can go to INSA and the Indian tribes, then finally Connie's extensive earmarking. You think any of those earmarks are related to lobbyist firms that donated to his campaign?

Come on! Let's go! Let's discuss Burns' "honesty," his "upstanding" work as Senator. I'm game.

---

by: Jay Stevens @ Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 01:37:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'd play if I thought it would do any good (0.00 / 0)

Jay, I've seen you throw this gauntlet down a couple of places, and rather than let it go completely unanswered, I thought I'd explain why I'm not going to dive in.

I feel fairly confident I could go toe to toe with you on references, links, and explanations for Burns' actions - hell, I did it for a living for a number of years.  That said, even if I did - it would solve nothing.  Not a single mind would be changed, no ground would be gained or lost, and at the end of the day it wouldn't change one thing anywhere.  The sun would still rise and set, Jon would still be Senator Tester, Conrad would still be Former Senator Burns, and you and I would still disagree.

Frankly, I just don't have the energy for the fight anymore.  If Jason wants to play ball - I'm sure he'd do fine.  Nevertheless, I didn't want you to think your call went unnoticed.  I just don't feel like playing.

Hope you (and the rest) understand.

JP

---

by: JP @ Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 16:53:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Absolutely (0.00 / 0)

And I'm ready to move on, too. I just wanted to let people know that I feel we did the right thing, no matter if legal action is -- for now -- not being taken against our former Senator.

---

by: Jay Stevens @ Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 17:08:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]