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Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Fascism = Social Democracy?

by: Kilgore

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 17:54:43 PM MST


(Kilgore has a pretty reasoned take on "Liberal Fascism," although I think he goes too easy on Goldberg. I'm not sure I'd agree that many conservatives actually prefer "classic liberal" economic policies, when most of recent GOP policy has been to promote certain corporate interest groups over everybody else... - promoted by Jay Stevens)

Neocon pundit and National Review on-line editor Jonah Goldberg has certainly created quite a stir with his recent book, Liberal Fascism, an attempt to tie modern progressivism to the policies of Italian dictator, Mussolini. After also considering the fervent use of the term Islamo-fascism among the Republican presidential candidates and the frequent slurs against the current Republican administration, I decided to spend the afternoon doing a little research into the meaning of the word "Fascism".  Wiki(liberal)pedia had this to say:

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and social interests subordinate to the interests of the state or party. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. The key attribute is intolerance of others: other religions, languages, political views, economic systems, cultural practices, etc. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

Further research of the article led me to believe that both the far left and the far right are way off-base with their casual use of the term 'fascist'.  It seems to me that, as several other thinkers have indicated, this word really has ceased to mean anything.

Here is what Mr. Goldberg has to say about his book:

Check out what I think below the fold...

Kilgore :: Fascism = Social Democracy?

Mr. Goldberg, who also appeared on the Daily Show last evening (view here), said one of the reasons he wrote the book was because he was sick of being called a fascist by people on "the left" due to his support of the military, so he basically went looking for fascist themes in the modern progressive movement, or more specifically in the ideas of Hillary Clinton.  I know everyone here thinks of her as Progressive Number One.  Not.  

I disagree with Hillary's ideas about raising children and I don't find them to be indicative of progressives as a whole or most Montanans who would identify as such.  I also think that Goldberg is missing the fact that there happen to be fascist themes in neoconservatism, liberalism, and socialism, but fascism is really a gestalt.  You need to have all the parts for it to be the real thing, not just a few pieces.

On the right, the strong nationalism and militarism smells of past fascist regimes. What is often viewed as intolerance of ethnic minorities (immigration?) also resembles it but some have argued that racism was peculiar to Hitler's brand of fascism.  There is also the use of a crisis to unify the people.  Terrorism, anyone? However, laissez-faire capitalism is stridently anti-fascist.  Conservatives claim to believe in the basic goodness of people and the invisible hand that guides us toward the greater good.  Long story short, neocons might seem occasionally heartless, but they aren't fascists.

On the left, many of us believe that the government should have a role in controlling wages and maintaining equal opportunity.  Our view of the health care crisis sounds like an exaggeration  to conservatives, but it really is a problem that needs government intervention.  Still, progressives espouse diversity and only believe in the power of the state to the extent that it can help champion the individual, not the state itself at the expense of the individual. We are also fervently on the side of individual liberties, hence the few liberals mistakenly supporting Ron Paul.   That just ain't fascist either.

As near as I can tell, laissez-faire worked really well until our technology became advanced enough to cause real lasting and irreversible damage to ourselves and the environment.  That's when it became clear that government intervention was necessary and that is totally in keeping with the philosophy of John Locke.  

Modern progressivism is really just social democracy, a hybrid of complete free market capitalism that makes sure things don't get out of hand, because sometimes it takes years to recover, like during the Great Depression for example or the era of unfettered mining and logging in Montana.    

I agree with Goldberg in that he says fascism has simply become a synonym for evil, but I think he's just using it is to sell books.  Hillary Clinton isn't a fascist because she thinks it take a village to raise a child and Bill O'Reilly isn't a fascist just because he's an a*$hole.  Remember, the most consistent part of fascism is intolerance so let's come up with a different epithet, shall we?

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Not sure if you saw the Daily Show interview with Goldberg, but Jon pretty much called him out for being an idiot. Watch the video here, it is worth it.

My Intent Wasn't To Go Easy (0.00 / 0)
The danger with the present trend in policy is that it certainly brings us closer to fascism, but it isn't fascism.  Those on the right are most certainly closer to it than we are, given the corporatism and bigotry we are seeing.  I mean the Republican debates have been like stand-up routines to me, but I don't want to be laughing.  It's like watching Tom Cruise talk about Scientology.

The word 'fascism' is feared for a reason, but luckily almost half of the country is very aware of what is happening, and they all aren't on the left.

Goldberg is a douche bag because he's using fear of fascism to attack anyone left of him.  He's trolling for examples.  But like I said, you need the whole package.  Until yesterday, I don't know how much I actually thought about what the word 'fascist' meant apart from guys in jackboots, and I figured I was not alone it that assumption.

A few more things I'd like to mention:

1) In response to the Wiki definition, I did my best not to use any of the examples not cited, and most of the elements included related directly to the definition espoused by Mussolini.  

2)  Goldberg mentions in the video I posted that one of his intentions was to encourage us to remember what it must have been like to talk about fascism before it become a synonym for Nazism.  Unfortunately for him, he looks like a moron because movement conservatives did the same thing to the words 'liberalism' and 'liberal', making them bad words.  Funny how we haven't managed to do the same thing to the word 'conservative', at least in the eyes of the general, independent public.

3) Shane, I did insert a link to the Stewart interview, but I guess it wasn't very visible.  I do believe that we should be able to see the whole interview.  I guess it must have gotten pretty ugly, but it makes Stewart look like he cut it for his own advantage.

What I really wanted to do, until the post got a little long, was provide a sound basis for a social democratic party.  I don't think anybody in Britain regards the Labour Party as Fascist.    


BTW Wiki(liberal)pedia was a joke. (0.00 / 0)
In case you thought I preferred the competition.

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