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Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
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If You Haven't Seen This
by: Rob Kailey - Apr 28
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Impeach the President?
by: Rob Kailey - Mar 16
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It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

The Foreign Policy Primary

by: Matt Singer

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:37:41 PM MST


Here's some fodder for thought. It seems to be largely taken for granted, both that:
  1. McCain has a lot of credibility on foreign policy.
  2. That Clinton has more credibility than Obama on foreign policy.
I can't take either of these sentiments seriously. John McCain seems woefully unprepared -- as evidence just check Matthew Yglesias's nearly daily highlights of McCain's continuing cluelessness on Iraq. He doesn't know who is Shiite, who is Sunni, what the difference is, the alliances in the area, who is strong, who is weak, etc., etc.

But he's, um, an expert.

As for the Clinton v. Obama thing, let me just say that I trust both of them way more than John "100 more years" McCain when it comes to foreign policy. But the idea that Obama hasn't passed a Commander-in-Chief test is just bizarre. Look at his endorsements: Bill Richardson, Lee Hamilton, Samantha Power (regardless of her stupid comments on Clinton, definitely a powerful/sharp foreign policy thinker), Larry Korb, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and Ivo Daalder.

Hell, Chuck Hagel said he'd consider running on a ticket with Obama.

Frankly, these are all mainstream foreign policy thinkers -- and of the non-crazy realist variety. Mark T probably isn't a huge fan of all of these folks -- they're too focused on U.S. interests for some. But they don't define U.S. interests in the same way that, say, Bill Kristol does. And they're the sort of voices I'd trust in an Administration.

They say Obama's ready to be CinC. He passes my thresholds for showing good judgment. What's the basis for saying he's not ready?

Matt Singer :: The Foreign Policy Primary
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Nothing substantial (0.00 / 0)
It's just an attempt for Clinton to make her look more prepared to be CinC. I'm a supporter of Clinton and besides a stupid comment about Bosnia I think she's had a lot of experience to know what to do. Maybe a little more than Obama, but I'm biased. If we are looking at some of Senator Obama's endorsements to shed some light on being a good CinC then let us also take a look at a couple of Senator Clinton's endorsements...

Gen. Wesley Clark
Sec. Madeleine Albright
Rep. John Murtha
Sen. John Glenn
Col. Nathan Jessep (just kidding :-P)
That's just to name a few people who do a pretty good job or have done a pretty good job in foreign affairs. The question is still out there. Clinton's campaign is trying to paint her as the only one who has the credentials. I think Obama would do fine. It's not that he doesn't, but why is he better than her?


I have a slight preference for Obama (0.00 / 0)
based largely on the Iraq War vote and a couple other things. Either one is qualified though and both are significantly saner than John McCain, who is a wee bit crazy on foreign policy.

[ Parent ]
I totally agree (0.00 / 0)
I sometimes have trouble with Clinton and the Iraq War vote, but I find that I have gravitated toward her on other issues. Of course for a lot of people these are minute differences, but that's what primaries are for. I'll gladly help Obama in any way possible if he gets the nomination. Phones, doors, all that good stuff. I'd hope more people would too.

[ Parent ]
Voting for the war in Iraq was horrible judgement. (0.00 / 0)
As most of us who attempted to be as informed as possible, we witnessed Bush & Co. shove their proprietary form of patriotism down everybody's throat. I don't know about anybody else around here, but I was aghast at how the Senate voted. And as I learned how uninformed the vote was over the years, and all the deception and lying of the Bushites, I solidified those feelings.

Quite frankly, everybody who walked Bush's plank and voted for the war fails the CinC test, hindsight notwithstanding.

After 4,000 American lives lost, 10's of thousands more injured, costs escalating into the multi trillions that our children will pay, and no exit strategy coming out of the Senate or the White House, well, I have no forgiveness.

I wouldn't vote for a single one of those people who voted for the war. They all have failed the CinC test, and exhibited horrible judgement.

And I have never voted for the lesser of two evils in a presidential election, out of 8 presidential elections that I have been of age to vote in. If Obama's name is not on the ballot, I will write in a third party candidate who has and had the guts to oppose the war. That write-in would be BHO. It is the only moral choice.

See, I do believe in principles. And allowing this country to go to war unchallenged is against every principle I have ever been taught. And I have no regrets withholding my vote from anybody who has violated my deepest held principles.

While redemption is always a possibility, I see few indications from those politicians who voted for the war that they are humble enough to ask for or deserve redemption. In some ways, the two are mutually exclusive: being a successful politician precludes the personage necessary to be redeemed from evil deeds, or acquiescing to evil acts.

To the visage of patriotic individuals rightly proclaiming  to "Never Forget" those who lost their lives on the battlefield, I add the image of Congress capitulating to Bush with their ill-fated votes. To forgive or forget the latter is to forget what precipitated the former.


I found his foreign policy address (0.00 / 0)
regarding Pakistan to be completely

haha, oops... (0.00 / 0)
terrifying.  

[ Parent ]
Wikipedia says it better than me: (0.00 / 0)
On August 1, 2007 Obama declared in a foreign policy speech that the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, with or without the consent of the Pakistani government. He claimed that if elected, "If we have actionable intelligence about high value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will".[78] On the same day in response, then-White House press secretary Tony Snow highlighted the policy's shift from the position established by the Bush Administration, he said: "Our approach to Pakistan is one that not only respects the sovereignty of Pakistan as a sovereign government, but is also designed to work in a way where we are working in cooperation with the local government".[79]

ABC News described the policy speech as "counterintuitive", and commented on how "one of the more liberal candidates in the race, is proposing a geopolitical posture that is more aggressive than that of President Bush".[80]

Tariq Ali, a British-Pakistani historian, criticized Obama for his comments regarding attacking terrorists inside Pakistan and stated "Were the United States to start bombing raids inside Pakistan, there would be a massive increase of support for the jihadi fundamentalist groups in that country, and it would weaken not just secular political groups, it would weaken even the moderate religious parties who are not associated with that."[81]

After weeks of discourse surrounding the policy, Obama said there was "misreporting" of his comments, claiming that, "I never called for an invasion of Pakistan or Afghanistan." He clarified that rather than a surge in the number of troops in Iraq, there needs to be a "diplomatic surge" and that if there were "actionable intelligence reports" showing al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, the U.S. troops as a last resort should enter and try to capture terrorists. That would happen, he added, only if "the Pakistani government was unable or unwilling" to go after the terrorists.[82]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

When even the Bush Administration is like, whoa, that's going a little too far...you have to wonder.  

This is also an example of what I like to call WORM (What Obama Really Meant).  He says something and then either he or a surrogate comes back later to explain what he was actually saying, because obviously all these news sources and academics are dumb and misunderstood him.  


[ Parent ]
Obama said exactly what he meant, (0.00 / 0)
and has recently followed up his statements by highlighting that Bush has done exactly what he had suggested, by attacking an al-Qaida holdout in Pakistan last month.

What would you rather we do, follow Clinton's lead, and authorize a war against a "sovereign government" with no followup plan? Occupy a foreign country that had no links to al-Qaida and 9/11 and have no exit strategy? Become so embroiled in nonsensical patriotic duties (Bush's revenge against Hussein) that we lose track of, and the ability to pursue the true target, bin Laden?

Sometimes you have to pressure foreign government dictatorships like Pakistan in order to get some movement on issues like, say, getting Osama bin Laden. Where was the "massive increase of support for the jihadi fundamentalist groups" in Pakistan following Bush's raid into Pakistan? There wasn't any.

While all politicians may bluster publicly, and I'd grant that Obama's statement carried a bit of huff-n-puff, I'm sure that Bush's moves (this time), and any Obama would take, would not be unilateral, nor waged without much internal discourse in Pakistan about consequences.

And I've yet to hear how Hillary Clinton plans on bringing Osama bin Laden to justice. Or is she?


[ Parent ]
Yes... (0.00 / 0)
Clearly Hillary Clinton was solely responsible for the Iraq War.  

[ Parent ]
And (0.00 / 0)
My first response probably seems unnecessarily snarky, which was not my intention, and I have more time to answer this than I thought I would.  I do think, however, that characterizing the war as "following Clinton's lead" is a little unfair.

I don't think Clinton made the right vote on Iraq, but I think she's been very honest about her vote, and I accept that she feels she was provided incorrect information from the Bush Administration.  


[ Parent ]
At the very least (0.00 / 0)
She did try to limit the time the President could wage war before coming back to Congress for an extension.

[ Parent ]
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