| JS: I'm here with Sam Kitzenberg, candidate for the office of public instruction. Hi, Sam. Would you like to introduce and make an argument for your candidacy.
Kitzenberg: Okay. Sam Kitzenberg, from Glasgow, Montana, and I'm one of four candidates running in the Democratic primary for the office of Superintendent of Public Instruction.
I guess my strongest argument is that of all four candidates, I have the most legislative experience. In fact, I have 14 years, total years, serving in the legislature. Six in the House, and eight in the Senate. And, of the candidates running, only two of us have legislative experience. Holly Raser has, I believe, 8 years, and I have 14 years. And the other two don't have any legislative experience.
JS: What's the importance of having legislative experience for the job?
Kitzenberg: Your money basically comes from the state government. And you really do have to have, you have to know how to handle the legislature. I mean, you can't just point a finger and say, you haven't funded this, you know, and think that you're going to intimidate 150 members of the legislature, to fund it better, or, whatever.
That won't work, and I'm surprised, it does show the two that don't have the legislative experience, one has the misconception that all it is, is you're sitting there at your desk, you know, pushing a red button and a green button. And that is so far from the reality. And the other one thinks that, you know, you can just, you know, point your finger and they're going to do what you ask them to do.
And not only that, but at the same time, we have to deal with the Governor. And, you know, that's a factor.
So, to me, that's where you're going to get your funding. If you don't get your funding, and if you don't get more of it, than we've had in the past, you're not going to get the job done. You're not going to do a lot of things that you want to do.
And, also, I think you need some teaching experience. I think you need to have been in the classroom. And I think all four of us have had that.
JS: What's your teaching experience?
Kitzenberg: I've had 17 years as an English teacher. And, so, I think you need that, I think you need to have a feel for it, what it's been like, you know, where it needs to go.
And that is definitely a campaign issue, as to where it should go. And I can elaborate on that right now...
JS: Sure.
Kitzenberg: ...if you wish. I want to be an advocate for teachers. The...what's happening right now is Montana is behind all of the other states...(laughs) not all of the other states, the surrounding states, as far as teacher salary.
For example, Wyoming starts its teachers at 40,000 dollars. Canada starts its teachers at 40,000 dollars. And unfortunately we start our teachers at around 32,000, and on down. We're 48th in the nation. And, what the problem there is that you have retention problems. People wanting to stay and develop themselves and, you know, become a good teacher, one, that can make a difference in a child's life. You know, lucky is the person that has a couple of teachers that really inspire them while they're in school. And I think that's very important.
So, what I'd like to do is, to make it so that somebody can stay in Montana and teach. And be happy while they're teaching. And be an even better teacher than they are now - I want to empower them.
And a couple things I've picked up along the way is that I want to...when I taught, you know, you'd, in the fall you'd watch the football equipment arrive (laughs), and say, boy if I could only have a couple of things that would enhance my teaching and, you know, one teacher told me last fall, they got a new security phone for their room. Well, that was fine, and it was needed, it really wasn't necessarily wasteful equipment, but at the same time, they needed some new maps. They'd had some maps that, you know, forever, they were outdated. And anything you can do, you know, to kind of update yourself. I've been advocating a couple thousand dollars per teacher.
I also found out when I was in [unintelligible] standing in a couple of lines, running into teachers and talking to them, a lot of them are spending a lot of money on their own. Because they need supplies. And if anything's cut, I mean that usually is. And, so, I think that...that will build better teaching, that will excite students by empowering your teachers.
And not only that, but I really enjoyed, I think the front line in teaching is teachers. And when I was at the teacher's convention here in Missoula this fall, a lot of them were just telling me exactly what is happening and what is needed. You know, the teaching has changed. The student body has changed. They need, for example, some of the special needs, there is a new special needs out there. What about autism, for example. And they're so up front, they see what's happening, and, so, of all the four candidates, I'm the one who said I will work Saturdays. And nobody...I'm surprised, nobody would match that.
And the reason I wanted to work Saturdays, it's the day when teachers are off, it's the day when I sit in my office and hopefully have conference calls, be open, say, advertise, I'm here, I'll listen to your ideas, I'll follow up on your ideas. I want to know what's happening out there in the state of Montana, and I want to know how I can help.
And, so, I think that's really important, to, one of those things that makes me different from the other candidates. One, I'm ready to go the extra mile. Two, I'm ready to listen. Three, I've got the legislative experience to deal with the legislature.
I think, quite frankly, if some of the others, with their lack of legislative experience, they're actually going to be crushed by the legislature. It's a tough ballgame. Hardball is played. And unless you've had some experience...
And I think, one of the things I've been trying to do, is to think outside the box and come up with some funding ideas where we can get some extra money to fund some of the things that I've been talking about. To bring our salaries up to par with the other states, to get the extra supplies for teachers. And then also one of the things, and I guess this is a look into the future, how to meet students who have extra abilities, or abilities that aren't up to par, is to be able to fund and make available to all students in the state of Montana a laptop computer.
And there's a reason for that, because there's a lot of things that - hi! [to passerby] - that you can do with computers that you can't do with computers.
So, the other side of the equation is that, right now, school districts in the state of Montana are in a crisis situation. The reason I say that, is that over half of them are floundering due to our funding formula. And the problem with our funding formula, it is based on, it works well when it's going ahead and you're gaining students, but when you're losing students, it just doesn't back up well.
And right now, over half of the school districts in the state of Montana had to run mill levies. And the problem - here's really the crunch - when they can, they have the opportunity to run the mill levy, but the problem is that most of them will still have to cut something. So, the formula's not working.
So, when people ask me, what's the next step, what's your top priority in the next session of the legislature, it's to put together a funding formula that works.
And, I was there when we put together our definition of quality educations. So we had the definition. That can also be improved. But I'm saying I'm all set to put together another funding formula, make some recommendations to the legislature and say, here's, it's just like building a train. You add the components to the train that you want into your funding formula. The hard part is finding consensus. But, also, you have the opportunity to add components that have never been in there.
One of the great needs for teachers is health care. I, in my 17 years of teaching, you know, every year I'd get a raise, (laughs) and that raise was usually eaten up by the increased cost of health care. So, it was like teaching without a raise for 17 years.
So, I think that - but who doesn't need better health care in the United States? I mean, this is a teacher issue, but it's also an issue that most Americans need.
So, those are some of the reasons...I'm running.
JS: Okay.
Kitzenberg: And I think that...go ahead.
JS: You mentioned new funding formulas? Would you like to elaborate on some ideas that you have to...new ways to get funds?
Certainly a lot of proposals you've mentioned would require more funds than we already have...
Kitzenberg: You know, one of the reasons I started mentioning some of these funding areas, and I've come up with [unintelligible]. And the reason I did this was, kind of a sounding board.
What I wanted was to direct the debate in that direction. And, actually, it's worked because a lot of my, some of my opponents, basically, what they're saying is, you know, I don't have any.
And I actually wanted to put them on the spot. I wanted to, you know, put out a couple of proposals, get some feedback on those, and then see what my opponents, you know, had to offer.
And, I have two of them. And I'm just, I just wanted to double check on my statistics here.
The first one, and I think you heard this last night, was that we've...the state of Montana has fooled around with leases and, there's a place called Otter Creek, and it's south of Ashland. What's really neat about it is everything in here is already set to go to schools. And there's 540 million tons of coal there.
What's been one of the biggest problems in the past is, has been, is that there's nobody that's wanted to lease it. It's like, it was set up, and it's just kind of sat there in limbo. And what's interesting, in fact, this has been documented quite recently in the Billings Gazette, that there are now people who want to lease it.
And there's a lot of components that go into this. And one of the components is that's it's part of your candidacy, you're also a member of the State Land Board. But the big thing is that there's a viable person that's interested in leasing, and it's, like I said, it's been sitting there, and now somebody's actually interested, and now it's more of a reality than it ever has been before.
I'm not saying it's exactly ready to go, but I am saying it's more of a possibility than it ever has been.
So that's been one of them.
Another proposal -- and what I've been trying to do is to think outside the box, because traditionally here in Montana we have supported our schools through property taxes. And, you know, the problem is, is that there's only so much money, so much that property tax payers can take. And it gets to the point where, no, the answer is, even before you ask the question, the answer's no. Because...been short on tax reform in the state of Montana, shifting it around, and just putting it on basically a one-legged stool. A little bit of income tax thrown in.
So, that's back there, too.
The other proposal was suggested to me, in fact, here in Missoula, on KGBO radio. And - you know, the more I thought about it, the more I thought, you know, this isn't a bad idea. And I think it's happening, too. I think it could become a reality. And that's the coal-to-liquid proposal that the Air Force is proposing at Malstrom Air Force Base.
Now, what's interesting is what's happening nation-wide. First of all, the Air Force has a ten-year reserve of oil. And, I mean, if nothing's done, in ten years, how are you going to fly their jets? You know, they have to do something.
So there is a little pressure there. The second thing that I think is kind of unique about this, is that, I mean it's a reality thing. They've come out, they've made their proposals, they're looking for somebody from private enterprises who's willing to do this.
JS: So how would the schools get revenue from coal-to-liquids on Malstrom?
Kitzenberg: Now, that's where you'd have to do some legislation. And that's where you would say, okay, you know, in order to do this, Montana has to have...get something from it. And so that would be...and I think they're looking at producing 20,000 to 30,000 barrels of oil daily.
Now, one thing I want to stress, is that, I am not an anti-environmental person. And I realize that part of the thing, part of the solution is going to be that carbon dioxide has to be removed. Now what I found encouraging was the fact that President Bush had put money in his budget this year to accomplish that. To either, I think there's a couple of ideas. One, is to pipe it down to the depths of the Earth. And another idea was to remove it and maybe pipe it to oilfields, and use that in the removal of more gas from existing lines.
And, you know, more is needed to be developed in this area.
And that would be a solution farther down the road. But I wanted to, you know, I do believe in climate change, I do believe in dealing with the carbon dioxide effect. So, there's that out there.
Now, what I think is interesting is that, you know, the candidates, we just recently had an interview and a forum. Basically what's happening is my opponents haven't come up with ideas, you know, to come up with more money. And so, that's where I did this with the idea of, you know, I might not have the most perfect solutions but I do have some solutions, and I don't feel that the solution is going to be to try to put more burden, you know, on the landowners and property tax owners, and so on.
My hope was that I could throw these out, we could debate these, and if somebody had a better idea, you know, they could put that on the table. And let's....
I taught that way, too. You know, I would, when you're honest enough and up front with students they will...you know, here's what we're going to do, here's how we're going to do it, you know, if grades are your only idea here, here's what you have to do to get an "A," here's what you have to do to...and I found that when you deal with people like that, they feel very secure. I enjoyed leading like that, and I enjoy teaching like that. And I had, you know, what I did my students, they had really a sense that they knew exactly, you know, I put all my cards on the table, and there was no trickery involved. And can we have an honest debate on this, do you have a better idea?
And so far, the basic response, I had one candidate say, well, there's some problems, you know. Or, it'll never happen, you know, stuff like that. And so my response has been then, what's your idea? How are you going to fund this, because, to me, I mean, that's key to this whole race. Because...and I can't do a lot of my ideas unless I get some extra revenue, either, or get them from new sources that aren't currently being taxed.
JS: Do have anything outside of coal? The reason I ask that...
Kitzenberg: Sure.
JS: ...is that, well, a couple reasons. One, I have written against using coal as a revenue for schools for a number of reasons. You know, environmental. But realistically - from my point of view, I guess everyone has a different view of realism - you see this with the current fate of the Highline plant in Great Falls, where investors are pulling out. Coal seems to be a very unpopular investment right now. And certainly, you know, once a new administration is in, there are a lot of plans to implement things like carbon caps and carbon taxes, so my question for you is, if the market in coal bottoms out, which there's a very distinct possibility, do you have, I mean...I think...I guess, as a, you know, as a parent I'm concerned that if we tether ourselves to coal, you know, in just a few years we'll find ourselves in the same place we are now, without revenue. That's if those Otter Creek tracts are used and leased, but that's still a big "if" at this point.
Kitzenberg: Right. Well, just let me share this with you, too. You know, I look at this, I'm a big wind advocate. It's real easy to be a big wind - but you know the problem is that the wind doesn't blow all the time. You know, you need something in between.
And, so, what, I'm not necessarily, I'm more in agreement, I think, with you than in disagreement. I'm saying clean coal, you know, I'm trying to, and I'm, maybe, talking about short-term realistic ideas.
I think there's going to be a gap in here, somewhere. Where we're going to be short and prices are going to go up to the point where people just cannot pay, you know, I mean, five to ten dollars a gallon. And I think that we're going to have to...and I'm not saying, necessarily, that we're going to have to remove our [unintelligible], I'm looking for a compromise, or a middle way that we can get through this. And I agree we don't want to - it's like, I don't believe in investing everything in one...I think diversity has been proven to be a safer investment -
JS: But, yeah, I guess what I'm asking, because it sounds mostly that you're, sort of, looking to coal for increased revenue. Is there any other, sort of, diversified, out-of-the-box ways of funding that you thought of?
Kitzenberg: Well, yes, I mean there's a lot of things that are happening. For example, you know, we put everything on to property tax owners.
JS: Yeah.
Kitzenberg: And there are different ways to achieve property tax relief. And there are, for example, just an easy answer would be just to raise the income tax, you know, would be a possibility.
JS: You think it's realistic in a...politically?
Kitzenberg: Well, to a certain extent, perhaps. You know, I, there's numerous committees right now studying and looking at tax reform in the state of Montana, looking at alternatives and things that we can do.
One of the things we've done in the past when we were short money for, we ran into trouble with Workman's Comp is that we added a few pennies on both sides that the work had to pay, and that the employer had to pay. And actually that got us out of the Workman Comp problem, and that's another, off-the-box, a way we could take a look at.
And I love doing that, excuse me, I love doing that. I love, you know, let's, you know, lay it out, see how it looks, and debate it, and...I don't see that, getting back to this race, I don't see that flexibility with the other candidates.
You know, if you don't come to the legislature, or advocate some ideas and throw some plans out there, I think you're going to have a terrible time, you just can't wave a finger and, sure, we haven't done it in the past, and we're going to have to do it in the future. Or, another attitude would be, you know, you do it, legislature. It's not that easy.
And the key is finding consensus. And, so, you have to, to get consensus, you know you have to start the debate rolling, you've got to throw a few proposals out there, and then you got, you have to go back and throw a few more out. But the person that's trying to come up with solutions is the person that I think [unintelligible], you know.
And I'm not done, I mean I have - you know, I could throw out some more solutions. The only problem with the person throwing out all the solutions is you have a bunch out there that could shoot down, and they'll find fault with almost anything.
You know, there are some in this state that would advocate a sales tax. And, you know...
JS: Is this the local area - what was that called? The local area...?
Kitzenberg: The local option tax.
JS: The local option tax, that's right.
Kitzenberg: And there are a lot that would like to have option, especially the larger towns. And that could raise some money. So that could be a possibility. So...
JS: Those are all, of course, legislative...things -
Kitzenberg: Exactly.
JS: I guess you would be able to lobby on those things, but...
Kitzenberg: And that's, you know, that's one of the things as far as the job is concerned. That's one of the things we haven't done enough in the past, because it's been primarily legislature. You come up with an idea, and we'll look at it, too, and we'll find some fault with it.
JS: Right.
Kitzenberg: There's been too much of that. You know, here's what I would say. The world is full of problems, and we need to start solving a few. You know?
And so, I would say to my opponents, you know, if you have a fault with some of these, what's your suggestion? And I'm willing to put my cards on the table and say, let's do this, because I think quite frankly, I think that's the way, with my years of experience, I think that's the way we're going to be, we'll have to work.
It isn't going to work to point the finger, it isn't going to work to say, you haven't done this in the past. You know, the legislative body knows that. You know, they're not...it's one of the hardest tasks in the world. And I don't think some of the potential candidates we have are up to taking that beating.
Now...I am.
You mentioned about taking a beating last session? (laughs) in the legislature? You know, I've kind of gone through it, and I've been able to take it, take it with grace, withstand it. I think I've got the internal fortitude, and the strength to do this. And it's not just taking a beating, it's being an advocate.
JS: Speaking of that beating (laughs)...that's, of course, when you switched parties before the last session...you were accused of all sorts of terrible crimes for it. Do you think - you talk all about your legislative experience - do you think that experience would perhaps help or hinder any efforts or lobbying efforts you'd have in the legislature? Do you think that, you know, your history with the Republican party, which may have the majority in one or both bodies, would hurt your chances for getting what you want?
Kitzenberg: Not really, because I think that I've been around for, you know, a number of years, and I built up relationships with a number of legislators.
And really where I have the problem, if there is a problem, it's with far right legislators.
John Cobb and I, for example, who's a Republican - in fact, he's endorsed my candidacy...
JS: Okay.
Kitzenberg: And people that are knowledgeable and responsible. Dave Lewis was willing to work with me on the special session, had we gone long enough in that direction. Representative Nooney from here in Missoula was also willing to do that.
So. Dedicated legislators who are willing to compromise and work for solutions, I have no problem with. I guess where I run into problems is, like, the fringe, the rightwing. And - and, basically what happened here and how this all came about was that they had targeted me even before I switched parties, to get rid of me. They sent out, they had gotten somebody to file on the primary against me. And, you know, that's fine, but I think in most parties, if you've got an incumbent, they're doing a decent job, basically they should be left alone.
But the other thing that bothered me was the fact that they started doing these techniques - I call them "hit squads" - (laughs) where they send out about six ultra-conservative legislators to your district to lobby against you.
Now I was out raising money in my district, and a lot of people were saying, you know, you don't need any money, you're going to get re-elected, blah blah blah, and I said, well, you know, you may be wrong because I think I may have a few enemies. Well, just after that - and I didn't even see it coming - here arrives, I think it was 7 legislators, to campaign against me.
Now the saving grace was our local editor, took a picture of them and asked them, why are you here? And so this appeared in our local paper, and after this happened, I had the next week the same guy that I was having trouble getting a campaign donation, he says, oh, I see you do have a few enemies (laughs), here's fifty bucks!
So, in a way, it was helpful, but I think what's happened on some of these races, like, there's a very famous one, about a representative from...they've been very effective at it, actually, in knocking people off in the primary. But, in the Flathead Valley, and they went out and targeted this individual, just because they had voted for education a couple times. And he lost.
And I think what saved me was the fact that the newspaper editor was there, took a picture of them, talked to them, and said, you know, what's your problems, and shared that with the district, and it almost had the reverse effect...
JS: Your friends, I mean, these outsiders coming in...
Kitzenberg: Yeah.
JS: ...to campaign against someone they know.
Kitzenberg: And so it worked to my advantage in some respects, but I also think I had some pretty deep roots among my district and had done...
You know, when I originally went to the legislature I was only going to go there for maybe one or two terms. And somebody said, you want to sign up for the retirement? And I said, I don't think I'm going to be here that long, and, you know, all of a sudden, 14 years later, here I am sitting with all this experience, and what do you do with it? Do you let it just go? Or do you - to me it's almost the thing, you know, when I thought about it, it's almost the thing of, you're duty bound to present this to the voters and say, you know, I think with this experience and everything else, and it's a couple passions in my life - education and politics - that I think that I'm probably suited for a type of job like this, that, I mean I can take a beating, if there's going to be a beating, or I can use all this stuff to be a good advocate, you know, for education, and so, that's my motivation, and where I'm coming from.
You know, how can I use this experience for a public benefit?
JS: Right.
Kitzenberg: Sorry for kind of getting off track...
JS: No, no! That's good stuff, I mean, actually probably everyone wants to know about that. (Laughs)
Kitzenberg: You know, and I tried to, when it happened, one day, I know, the Minority Leader said, instead of advocating where he was going to go - this is Corey Stapleton -
JS: Yeah...
Kitzenberg: He went off on a wild tangent -
JS: This is the first day of the session...
Kitzenberg: Yes. And I - you know - actually I was going to get up and respond to him, but at the same time, I didn't want to be part of it. And I thought he should have got up and said here's our, here's what we're going to go with, here's our platform. You know, if he'd of wanted to maybe spend a couple minutes on it, you know, that was fine.
But I did - I was advised - I did get a note from the Democratic leadership, you know, not to get up and fuel the flames. And so...
JS: On the day when everyone was talking about cooperation...
Kitzenberg: Exactly.
JS: ...and Stapleton stands up and...
Kitzenberg: Yup.
JS: Yup.
Kitzenberg: So I actually heeded that advice, and I didn't respond. You know, I wanted to. I wanted to get up and say, you know there are a lot of things I don't like about the current Republican party, obviously. You know, it's swung to the right. It's not the party of education.
I had a letter that was sent to the editor in the Glasgow Courier, and they were digging for something that, why they didn't like me. This was a Republican. And they got to the end, and they said, you know the problem with Senator Kitzenberg is that he supports education. (laughs)
You know? I about rolled off the davenport laughing! I mean, I thought I was going to learn some deep, dark - I was wondering, what is the problem?
And - they're right! They're exactly right. I have supported education almost 95 percent of the time. In fact, better than any other legislator, and even, you know, John Cobb and I had some plans and some ideas that outdistanced even what some of the Democrats wanted to do.
I know the one session we had some amendments, and we wanted to do that, and finally the Republicans set the bar down a little bit lower and went for that. And we voted for that, too. But you know, when I was talking to John, John says, you've always been there for education. And knew we weren't quite doing the job, and our funding level has, you know, you're supposed to be funding the school districts to a 76 percentile. We're not doing that!
We just dropped, put more on the local property taxpayers, and, so that's kind of why I'm running...
You know, somebody, I think it would be unfair for somebody to say, that I'm out to rape the environment, or that I'm not an environmentalist. I took pains to say that I believe in climate control, I believe that we need to deal with the carbon dioxide issue. And I'm not, you know, on the Land Board, it's a tough, these are tough calls. You know?
I'd have to look at them all, individually, and I, you know, I've got some of that in my soul, too. I've got - balance is the key. You can't use up, some of these things are irreplaceable, and you can't just, you know use them up.
So there's some tough choices, but at the same time, you know, when you have something sitting there. And I get, in a way --
JS: (laughs) I'm sorry!
Kitzenberg: I'm more interested in - I know you could take off on that, too - I am more interested, you know, I'm interested, we've set it up and now that we have leasers, I think we need to take a second look at that.
Maybe we'll just, all we'll get is, do is just a maybe doing a lease. You know? You know how that goes -
JS: Yeah.
Kitzenberg: Not everything that is leased is developed. Somebody says, what about this scheme to build a railroad? Well, you know, that's questionable, too. Will we be able to do it? You know, but, I'm not - I wanted to put it on the table for discussion.
And I want to put some other proposals out there and see...and I, and what I don't want to do is what some of my opponents are doing. They're just pandering, you know, to that, you know...they're not being truthful and they're not coming up with solutions, and I think that's pandering.
And so I think in some respects I'm being a little more honest than the rest. I'm willing to - and I did that with my classes, too. With my students, I would say, well, you know, if they found something that was too disagreeable to them, and they thought, you know, here's what you have to do to get an "A," "B," duhduhduhda, you know, they'd say, naw that's unfair, and I'd say, well, let's talk about it. You tell me what you think is fair, and how this should be changed.
So that's the type of person I am.
JS: Okay. I just want to take a couple more minutes because I don't want to have this too long, but one of the questions came up last night about, was including gays and lesbians in the anti-bullying legislation - do you support that?
Kitzenberg: Exactly. You know what? I had a couple pastors tell me - one guy who's from the Bitterroot, and he dresses in black - and he told me that I was going to Hell. And I said, you know, see you there, brother. (laughs)
I'm being a little facetious there, but, you know, Don Ryan was doing the definition of education, and he was just overloaded. And I said to Don: Don, what can I do as vice-chairman to take the burden off your shoulders. (Laughs) That's how I got into that. He says, well, would you take the anti-bullying bill? And I said, okay.
And again, it's one of those things that, at the time -
JS: Why did you support it? What was...why do you believe in it so strongly?
Kitzenberg: Well, because I had seen bullying going on in the high school. We had to consolidate and merge our middle school with our high school. He had these little middle schoolers - some of them - were, you know, shorter, easier to pick on.
JS: Right. (laughs)
Kitzenberg: Just a classic example for bullying, and the problem is, is that we, I mean, I was being a hall monitor and here comes this young kid running down with his books and these football players - I shouldn't even say "football players" - some large students, high school students tripped them.
You know, he fell all over - he was late for class, his books...and I went over there and I said, you know, that's not, that behavior is not kosher. And they said, ah, we were just playing, we were just having fun.
Well, not really. And I said, you know, that situation shouldn't exist in the high school. Problem is, we didn't have a bullying bill, or policy, at the high school. So the best that I could do is take them down to the guidance counselor for a lecture. And you know, then they laugh it off and walk back and...does that mean that behavior isn't going to happen the next day?
Well, to have a really, to make a long story short, to have a real effective bullying bill, we needed...the attempts to do a bullying bill had not happened at the Board of Education. And attempts to do it had been thwarted, and it wasn't going anywhere.
So I introduced the bill, and you know what was really interesting about this thing, there was no support among the education group, from Linda McCulloch on down for the thing. I mean, we really started from scratch.
And I believe strongly that everybody that goes to school should be in a safe haven. I don't think that teachers should be bullied, I don't think that students should be bullied, for whatever reason. And there are a multitude of reasons. Probably the most controversy is, for example, if they're a different sexual nature, or whatever, that becomes apparent. I think they deserve to be protected.
And it isn't - that was the most controversial part of the bill. They said, I had adopted the...some of my critics said I had adopted the homosexual agenda, to put it into the school system.
Not so. My attitude was, this is an anti-bullying bill. This applies to differences, all kinds of differences in students. And this means those differences are going to be protected and nobody's going to be hassled.
So, you know, I embrace that, and they went ballistic. The School Board Association, oh, disappointing. They had all kinds of surveys and statistics and wouldn't support me. And we ran our own surveys, and I thought we had some very realistic data.
What was super neat was that bill, as controversial as it was, got out of the Senate Education Committee. Then, it also got out of the Senate, and it had a beautiful chance in the House, and it failed by one vote.
So, Linda McCulloch went to the Board of Education, and they kind of watered it down a little bit, and they said, we'd like have each school district adopt an anti-bullying policy. So that...here's the policy. It could then, a student could be disciplined for not following that policy.
And all kinds of religious groups and rightwing, you know, things, just had nasty things to say about me. And I had a couple of legislators say, they said, ah, geez, you lead the prayer group, for pete's sakes! You know, how come you're going out and trying to protect people that...I said, because they're human beings and because I think schools should be free from this.
And the testimony was just tear-jerking. All the people that go through this type of behavior.
But it was drawing a line and saying this is not acceptable. And being specific. And saying, what do you mean? What are you talking about? And, yes, we were talking about people who had a different sexual orientation. People who were physically different. And on and on. And we had defined it. And that bothered some people, and, you know, it was really, it was a tough bill. One of the toughest bills I've ever had to guide in my life.
And so disappointing. A name comes to mind now. Bernie Olson was the guy they sent the hit squad out, you know, from...and he lost out. But he usually votes with education, and I remember arguing with Bernie, you know, to vote for the bill. And he says, does the School Board Association back it? And say, yes, the School Board Association backs the bill. Well, he, I guess he voted against it.
And...but, I mean, to lose by that close of a...was very disheartening. A tough job, but I was just kind of amazed , it was an educational process, too. And it was one of those things finally we could talk about objectively.
I have no regrets in offering that bill. And I still feel that bullying is not acceptable. It's not an acceptable school behavior, in that our schools...
And so I was glad last night, for example, that, I mean that's right up my alley! [Referring a question posed to the OPI candidates at "Candidates Gone Wild" about including gays and lesbians in a bullying bill.]
JS: Yeah!
Kitzenberg: I mean, I've been there, I've done that.
Some people can put a different spin on it, you know, and - which is not true, and say that I backed the homosexual agenda, in schools.
Not at all. I wouldn't call it that, that's - I even had legislators, I mean I don't know how often I heard that. But I said, you know, that is an anti-bullying bill. You can call it what you want, but this is what it is. And this is the behavior. I don't care, but list all the differences! That's not the only difference.
And the rest aren't - you know, they tripped the kid because he was physically smaller, and it was easier to pick on him, and that's not acceptable behavior! That's what I told the kids in the school. I'd seen it happen, that particular one, and so, I mean, I walked out of there with a clean conscience and explained it and re-explained it, and, ah, you know, it's...
In the long run, I think, the school groups came around, I stood alone, and I'm not afraid to take unpopular stances. I think you need somebody that has type of inner strength to be Superintendent of Public Instruction and to stand up for these things.
JS: I want to wrap things up real quick, do you have any last thoughts? To leave everyone with?
Kitzenberg: Yeah.
One thing ,a problem I have with this election? I feel very strongly in campaign reform. And one of the things that's happening is it's not a level playing field. One of the candidates has put 20,000 into her account, her campaign. Another one has put 10,000 in their campaign.
Now, what that does...it tilts the board.
That buys media and publicity and whatever you think, and so all I'm saying, basically, is I think campaign reform is needed in Montana. I think we can do a better job with that.
Right now I'm at a disadvantage. I think people should recognize that that's happening. And that...and I really also want to say that this is really an important election. I'm worried about people going and voting Clinton or Obama and then getting and voting for, perhaps, Baucus and our Governor, and then getting to the third tier, and all of a sudden there's an attorney general's race, and they're not sure, you know, and haven't researched who the best candidate is, and they'll vote for maybe a name they've seen on a billboard down in Butte, or that they, whatever.
And then I'm also worried them when they get to the OPI race, and, you know, all of a sudden, again, who is the best candidate?
JS: Well, if they're listening to this, they'll probably be pretty well informed. (laughs)
Kitzenberg: Well, you know, it is a small state, in a lot of respects, I'm just, I'm hoping that's the case, and I hope if they check a name, there's a reason why, they've done some research, and I appreciate this interview -
JS: Sure.
Kitzenberg: --because I think, I would say to people, look at our website.
JS: Do you have a website address for everyone?
Kitzenberg: I do! Um...(laughs)...www.samforsuperintendent.com.
JS: All right. I'll post the link along with the interview.
Kitzenberg: And you know the other thing I want to say, is that there's a major difference between my website and the other websites. On mine, one of the first questions I'm asking is, how may I serve you?
JS: Right.
Kitzenberg: And you'll find on the others that they're not coming from that attitude. It's like, here are my, I mean, how beautiful can you be?
JS: Right.
Kitzenberg: You know? And that's fine. But my attitude is, you know, how may I serve you, I'm not here to please you, I'm here to provide you with resources and to check out some of your ideas, and see if we can't help you in some way.
JS: Cool! Thank you very much, Sam. I appreciate the time.
Kitzenberg: You're more than welcome.
JS: Good luck.
Kitzenberg: Thanks. |
