"...giving fetuses rights that supersede those of the expectant mother..."

O my. (0.00 / 0)

So, if we're so AGAINST abortion, then where's the focus on family planning and education?

O wait, that was in the DEMOCRAT party platform, not the Republicans', right?

(Get it, "right"? LOL)

Seriously, when we focus on abortion as that perfect wedge issue, then true agendas are revealed, aren't they?

It's just too bad this is happening in the state of my birthplace.

Sigh

"You must be the change you want to see in the world."~Mahatma Gandhi, Indian political and spiritual leader (1869 - 1948)

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by: tyler1420 @ Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 20:02:14 PM UTC

Has this RW idiot even stopped to think this thing through? Yeah, that's a silly question.... (0.00 / 0)

Depending on which citation you use, a fetus is differentiated from an embryo anywhere from 8-11 weeks of gestation (depends on structures that have developed). I had several "miscarriages" (spontaneous abortions) between 10 & 11 weeks, so I guess that under that proposed Virginia law, I'd be a "repeat offender".  Even worse, one miscarriage occurred while I was in a 'conveyance' (my hubby & I were on the road), so I have no idea exactly when 'fetal death' occurred, or where, nor would I have been able to save any 'remains' to turn over to the proper jurisdiction (whatever that would be during interstate travel).

Would I have faced charges? And,charged with what: having an uncooperative uterus? Deleterious genes?

Please please tell me that the Virginia legislature isn't going to go here. (This is what happens when you systematically exclude science from education.)

Oh, and for the record: I am pro-choice, and I hate abortion.  

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by: deb @ Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 01:13:23 AM UTC

Oh, and for the record: I am pro-choice, and I hate abortion. - really? (0.00 / 0)

If you really hated abortion you wouldn't so admantly defend a womans choice to kill her unborn baby would you?

That's the debate - do we allow the killing of unborn children or not?  

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by: Eric Coobs @ Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 23:44:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No, Eric (0.00 / 0)

And this is simply why you couldn't continue your farcical attempt at a debate with me on this topic.

do we allow

That's you're fricking problem, right there.  Who the hell is we, and what do you "we" have the authority to "allow"?  

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by: Rob Kailey @ Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 00:36:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wulfgar - you always lose - don't forget that - (0.00 / 0)

Murder is against the law - that's the argument - 'we' is a society -

Once again your liberalism has driven away the little reasoning power you allege to posess -  

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by: Eric Coobs @ Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 15:58:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Murder? (0.00 / 0)

Oh come ON, Eric.  You're not really THAT simple, are you?  You see, Eric, SOME people think that murdering one hundred thousand REAL LIVE PEOPLE in Iraq is murder, not an abortion!  Cells are cells, and people are people!  BTW, how many crack babies you raisin' at the moment?

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by: Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers! @ Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 17:32:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Murder is against the law (0.00 / 0)

Abortion is not.  By your shallow reasoning, that should be the end of any argument right there.  You lose.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 18:39:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Think this through.. really Deb. (0.00 / 0)

I too have had several miscarriages, both at around 10-11 weeks.  Just like with any death that is reported to the authorities, this would be as well.  As my OB-GYN told me at the time, the term is called spontaneous abortion.  So under reason of death (or whatever they call it) that would be the answer.  Along with the time, and whatever.  

Also, some miscarriages never make it into the doctor/hospital, just like my second one.  In that scenario, why would authorities or whoever have anything to do with it??

I think you, like many other pro-aborts, like to make legislation like this into more than it is.

And before you label me, abortion has never been my "issue".  I don't blog on it, and mostly I don't really care about it, though I am pro-life.


- Keeping the Left honest since 2001

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by: sydney@alias @ Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 21:07:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Also, some miscarriages never make it into the doctor/hospital, just like my second one. In that scenario, why would authorities or whoever have anything to do with it?? (0.00 / 0)

Did you read the propsed law? Take a look at subsection E:

When a fetal death occurs without medical attendance upon the mother at or after the delivery or abortion, the mother or someone acting on her behalf shall, within 24 hours, report the fetal death, location of the remains, and identity of the mother to the local or state police or sheriff's department of the city or county where the fetal death occurred. No one shall remove, destroy, or otherwise dispose of any remains without the express authorization of law-enforcement officials or the medical examiner. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

Now, note that a fetus is not defined in this law as pertaining to any specific gestational age (8 weeks? 10 weeks? Doesn't say that I can see); it doesn't define 'delivery' or 'abortion', nor does it differentiate between 'legal abortion' and 'spontaneous abortion'.

Like you, abortion isn't my "issue", but this leapt out at me.

I'm sorry for your losses (yes, they are real losses that I mourned and I imagine you did, too), but the way this proposed law is written, we might have been in legal jeopardy.  

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by: deb @ Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 21:25:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're joking, right? (0.00 / 0)

My second one wasn't identifiable as a child, fetus or anything.  You know very well, we're not talking lumps of red tissue, we're talking baby.  

As in, when a girl tries to flush her dead fetus down the toilet, she'd be in violation of the law.  And it's a misdemeanor, sort of like a traffic violation.

Who'd turn you in?  Your husband?  And what proof please if we're talking a miscarriage at 10 weeks?  Be realistic, this isn't to catch those 8-10 week miscarriages, you and I both know it.  You're being alarmist.

- Keeping the Left honest since 2001

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by: sydney@alias @ Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 21:47:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Joking? (0.00 / 0)

You tell me, sydney. Pro-lifers have been telling me for decades now that a ten-celled zygote is a human being, that excavating it from a womb is tantamount to murder, and on which zygote Rick Jore's recent ballot proposal, if passed, would have endowed full rights of citizenship.

So...am I being alarmist? Or is the pro-life movement full of sh*t?

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by: Jay Stevens @ Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 22:24:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm talking the difference between (0.00 / 0)

a miscarriage and an abortion.

Or don't you know the difference?

- Keeping the Left honest since 2001

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by: sydney@alias @ Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 21:48:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]