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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Is the $3.5 million Estate Tax cap too high?

by: Jay Stevens

Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 11:40:56 AM MST


CNN has a nice little report on the different tax reforms we can expect to hear about as the federal goverment looks to raise revenue for its stimulus spending while still giving middle-class taxpayers a break. In short, there's talk of increasing revenue by going after offshore tax havens and international corporations, taxing hedge fund managers at normal rates, reinstituting the estate tax, and taxing health benefits; and extending the Bush tax cuts for middle-class families and making permanent the work pay tax credit. Max Baucus will have his finger in all of these pots.

I bring up these reforms, because big sage mentioned in the comments of the "Links..." post that Baucus and Tester voted to raise the cap for the estate tax...

The estate tax was phased out under the Bush adminsitration, but scheduled to re-emerge from its slumbers in 2010 at pre-2001 cap levels. Baucus wants to raise the cap to $3.5 million for an individual and $7 million for a couple at 45 percent, and adjustable for inflation.

Now I'm a big advocate for the estate tax. We tax lottery winnings -- why not tax the biggest lottery winners of them all, the inheritors of fortunes not earned? And those fortunes were no doubt built on the infrastructure that tax dollars provided -- roads and lines of communications, a secure marketplace, education for the workforce, etc & co -- why not take some of that money back to ensure a working society so that Richie Rich, Jr. can make his stab at a fortune (with 55 percent of mom and dad's millions as a starter kit)?

But I hardly find a $3.5 million cap too lenient...you know? While the meme that the estate tax hurts  family farms is 95 percent myth, keeping the threshold well above the value of your typical farm isn't a bad idea...

Discuss.

Jay Stevens :: Is the $3.5 million Estate Tax cap too high?
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There are exemptions for "family farms" and businesses (0.00 / 0)
if I recall.  If you stay on the farm or ranch or in the business for a certain amount of years, the taxes are spread out over those years.  I think it's ten.  The inheritance tax is an absolute must.  Thomas Paine was an early advocate.  The money was to be put in a National Fund that would then be dispersed as a capital grant on an American citizen becoming 18 years old. And same citizen receives an old age pension on retiring.

Paine like many enlightened thinkers believed that a person cannot be rich on an island.  He needs other people to be rich therefore he owes society.  Anything a person could not produce alone in nature was a social surplus i.e. a consequence of society.  Read "Unjust Deserts" by Gar Alperovitz and Lew Daly.

Family farms and ranches need help in converting to organic and getting out from under Monsanto and Big Ag. Max and Jon should spend there efforts educating their constituents as to the myths of the inheritance tax.  


Actually Jay (0.00 / 0)
Baucus and Tester voted for a non binding amendment that would exemption the first $10 million of an estate.  Here's the AP story:

Senate goes on record to lower estate tax

3 days ago

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate has voted to cut taxes on multimillion-dollar estates as it gets ready to pass a budget backed by President Barack Obama.

By a 51-48 vote, the Senate embraced a nonbinding but symbolically important amendment by Arkansas Democrat Blanche Lincoln and Arizona Republican Jon Kyl to exempt estates up to $10 million from the estate tax. Estates larger than that would be taxed at a 35 percent rate.

Obama is proposing exempting estates up to $7 million and taxing larger ones at a 45 percent rate instead of the $2 million exemption and 55 percent rate slated to take effect in 2011.

Democratic leader Harry Reid brought ailing Sen. Edward Kennedy in for the vote and lobbied several of the nine Democrats who broke with the president without success.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

There's a big difference between $2 million and $10 million...and it sure looks like Max "Silver Spoon In His Mouth" Baucus thinks no taxes up to $10 million is better than no taxes up to $3.5 mil....I wonder why he has changed his mind?

And isn't this a big change for Tester as well?


Keep on taxing (0.00 / 1)
Everything... And let's see how long any sort of wealth lasts.


- Keeping the Left honest since 2001

Reality can be your friend, syd. n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Is she wrong? (0.00 / 0)
I forgot...you leftys and your hate of accomplishment (wealth).  My bad, keep hating the rich.

[ Parent ]
Yes, Rusty (0.00 / 0)
She is wrong.  I pointed that out quite clearly in a comment right below this.

[ Parent ]
Hate accomplishment..... (0.00 / 0)
That's funny...and code...if you think there should be a tax on income you "hate accomplishment".  How about no taxes on anyone, ya know, I mean, I would not want to impede "accomplishment"....

Rusty, let us know when you're ready to get beyond the cute little right wingnut sayings...


[ Parent ]
Would you be fine with a flat tax? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Good point (0.00 / 0)
Syd...let's not tax anything.

No, but let's be (0.00 / 0)
very careful of economic reality.

What we tax we get less of, what we subsidize, we get more of.

What do you think Obama and Democrats in Congress are discouraging/encouraging?  

- Keeping the Left honest since 2001


[ Parent ]
That's just flat out false. (0.00 / 0)
Estate taxes are based, more than anything, on real holdings like property value and concrete assets.  Are you telling us all that we will get less property (or property ownership) based on the estate tax?  'Cause that's exactly what you just wrote, syd.

Furthermore, when all you objectivist leaning wingnuts write about incentive, all you're really doing is telling the rest of us that you are slaves to handouts.  Give you something and you're motivated.  Charge you for it, and you lose the will to live.  Give me a fracking break.

People in this country are encouraged to accrue wealth by wealth's sake alone.  Being taxed for it is not a disincentive.  And for the record, it's the inheritor of wealth that pays the estate tax.  Are you telling us all, syd, that we should give one salient crap about whether or not Paris Hilton is 'encouraged'?  Of course you are; you just did.

Sydney, give up your platitudes.  They don't serve you or the country.  And they are borderline stupid.


[ Parent ]
discouraging? (0.00 / 0)
Let's see...if you tax the estates of the mega-rich...are we discouraging the accumulation of obscene amounts of wealth? And is that a problem?

[ Parent ]
What classifies as "obscene"? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Ahh, yes... (0.00 / 0)
The 8% of the wealth that is either inherited or won through state lotteries.

Nice try, kitten.


[ Parent ]
8% (0.00 / 0)
Sweet.  Tax the shit out of it.

You still haven't shown how either Jay or I are wrong, cupcake.


[ Parent ]
That's right... (0.00 / 0)
why not just "tax the shit out of" everything?

Let's impede the drive for creating new products, technologies and services...new medical advances and the such.  I'm sure everything will be just fine.

Do you have any understanding of how the private sector works?


[ Parent ]
Rusty.. (0.00 / 0)
what was the high end tax rate thru the 50's into the 60's?  Something like 95%....and how much did the country grow during that time Rusty? How about the 60's into the early 80's...tax rate in the mid 70% range Rusty...how much production, how many new technologies and services created then Rusty?

You have swallowed the Reagan tax myth Rusty...you know...taxes bad...government bad...free enterprise, free trade, no regulations GOOD!!!  It's a pity that philosophy has proven to be a failure time and time again...

Cutting taxes has generated ZERO demand for new products and technologies...have you ever owned a business Rusty? If you have, then you know that you add employees, you make more product, ONLY when there is demand...a tax cut does little to create demand..

 


[ Parent ]
Where are you getting your "facts"? (0.00 / 0)
Source much?

[ Parent ]
here ya go! (0.00 / 0)
John Cole even has a graph of the historical tax rates for the top bracket, cause I know you like it when there's pictures...

[ Parent ]
:) (0.00 / 0)
I suspect you won't be getting a response to that. :)

[ Parent ]
What that (0.00 / 0)
graph doesn't show is the growth in personal income, GDP, etc during the years from WWII through 1980...if it had, you would see a steady growth in income and GDP up until the mid 1980's and then, for the most part a decline. (I think one or two up years in the last 20)

[ Parent ]
Wait... (0.00 / 0)
are you saying we don't live in a vacuum?!?

But...they have a chart?!  It must be accurate?!?!


[ Parent ]
First, (0.00 / 0)
The US has had a mixed economy for a very long time, there's never been a capitalist "nirvana".  Second, growth during the 50s had a lot to do with the post war period and government financing the private sector in space and military.  

Third, even given the very high tax rates, those were on incomes many times higher (and worth more in today's dollars) than the highest tax bracket now.  Ie: That was reserved for very very high income, while today that bracket is applied to a far lower one.  

Not saying I agree with even that, but that's the reality.  

And imagine the wealth we'd have today if we had had more capitalism.  =)

- Keeping the Left honest since 2001


[ Parent ]
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