Good News

Easy answer. (0.00 / 1)

It's no mystery why the "crazy" as you put it has become so emboldened and popular.  Common people have ALLOWED it to happen!  NO one has pushed back!  In the name of "civility", good people have allowed evil to flourish.  Well, ain't NUTHIN' civil about the bullshit that the righties have been proposing, and now it's gone mainstream.  When the righties talk crazy talk like secession, violent overthrow, military coup, etc., EVERYONE needs to rise up and get in some face!  But it just ain't happening.  A few of us have been doing it for years.  And for it, we're labeled "uncivil".  Well by GOD it's time for LOTS of folks to get just a wee bit uncivil!  Realize that there's NOTHING civil about what they want!

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by: Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers! @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 22:30:49 PM UTC

You don't understand the term sucession Larry (2.00 / 2)

When South Carolina left, it was the Union that brought troops in and started the military coup of a sovereign nation.  Lincoln then went to levels unseen until Adolf Hitler, and became the worst war crime president in history.  Somebody wanting to leave is 100% peaceful.  If Obama used illegal force, he'd be the violent one.

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by: Widowmaker @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 00:42:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'd think you might know (0.00 / 0)

something about which you speak, if only you knew how to spell it. "Secession."

Barring that, I'd like to see your Constitutional underpinnings for the phrase "illegal force." Maybe some elaboration on how secession could ever be "100% peaceful." And maybe you could contrast your allegations of Lincoln's "worst war crimes" with those of ex-presidents Bush and Truman.

For starters...  maybe. In other words, it's book report time, buddy. Done your homework lately?

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by: JC @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 01:03:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

That is insane. (0.00 / 0)

Under your logic I can turn my house into my own country, burn tires for a fee, grow opium, exploit children, and then justifiably kill any law enforcement who "invade." Is this what conservatism has come to?

Lincoln fought to reunite a country divided over moral and economic questions. Hitler invaded long-sovereign countries to systematically kill their populations and take their land for Aryan expansion. To compare the two is insane, and only underscores your shallow understanding of "sucession," which is not only the wrong word, but is also misspelled.

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by: Equo ne credite @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 18:04:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

By bad on misspelling a word (0.00 / 0)

However, you still have zero grasp of the context of "Secession", nor of the war of Northern aggression.  States rights is a real issue, to compare it to your own house's sovereignty as no place and shows your lack of understanding basic concepts.  First read the constitution, look how our Republic was formed, and gaze on its history.  We are 50 states joined under a federal government for the common ideals placed in the articles of the Constitution plus the 27 amendments.  The 10th outlining that anything not included in that document goes to the states.  This has been violated horribly.  If you look at the declaration of independence (hint; for your overall simplistic look at life, its a US History document), it shows similiar concerns that these state leaders are showing. And, nowhere in the Constitution does it say a state can't leave.  A states population must vote to become a state (notice Puerto Rico has had several votes and never voted "yes" for statehood).  If a states population can't vote themselves out, that makes the federal government more like the mafia.  They'd rather kill us than let us leave.  And, I do not see the President as the mafia leader.  Actually, why can't a state leave, besides that it doesn't make you "feel good", or whatever crazy non-logical reason you can give.

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by: Widowmaker @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 19:43:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hmm (0.00 / 0)

"We've really started to hit a point where the crazy is swelling to previously unseen levels. What is it? Something in the water?"

Could be the whole 'both major parties whoring themselves out to the banking class' thing. Or maybe the 'White House asserting emergency power to shut down internet traffic' stuff. Or just the 'run up a mind-boggling debt that's impossible to repay and effectively sells all taxpayers into debt slavery' issue. Not saying I support secession, but you do have to expect people do take notice of these sorts of things.

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by: AndrewBissell @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 07:49:27 AM UTC

Ah yes. Slavery, WHITE slavery! (0.00 / 1)

Yes, that nasty ol' Black president is gonna make us all lily white slaves, just like all them signs at the teabaggers rally!   Let's just say it truthfully, shall we?  We don't WANT no n*gger for OUR president!  So we'll talk tough about seceding.  Just  SAY it, andy.  Don't be a total wuss!

p.s. Where the hell are my OTHER posts?  This can't be happening on leftwest, can it?  There was NOTHING wrong with what I wrote.

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by: Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers! @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 13:34:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I call bullshit. (0.00 / 0)

When people hit the streets protesting a pointless war (not calling for secession from the Union under Bush) they were painted by the entire conservative movement as downright treasonous. But picking up the pieces from the most incompetent presidency in history is grounds for secession.

Bullshit.

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by: Equo ne credite @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 18:08:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It took me a little while to figure out the emergency power/Internet thing (0.00 / 0)

But it looks like the White House isn't asserting anything. Instead, two Senators have proposed a bill that would change the law to allow the President to take an action that I admit I don't fully understand. On first blush, as with much federal legislation, I don't think I support it, but it isn't Barack Obama doing anything with massive spending and it certainly isn't warrantless wiretapping or torture through unilateral executive action.

Where were you in the streets during Bush's time in office, Mr. Bissell? I know that you think economic freedom is more important than civil liberties, but it does seem strange to me that taxes are more vexing than waterboarding.

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by: Matt Singer @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 19:45:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well (0.00 / 0)

For a lot of Bush's term I was, unfortunately, supporting the war in Iraq. I was wrong, and it shouldn't have taken me nearly as long to figure it out as it did. Since I was out of the country for most of last year as things truly degenerated politically, there weren't really any streets for me to take to, so I made some donations to Ron Paul's campaign, in the hopes that they would help get the word out on viable alternatives to omnipotent federal government. I guess I could have carried a "Let Them Fail" placard through the streets of Johannesburg though.

"I know that you think economic freedom is more important than civil liberties ..."  Yeah, this is why I support a complete end to the War on Drugs, free and open immigration, and civil unions for homosexuals (as an intermediate measure on the way to complete separation of state and marriage). What you know, really, is how to put words in people's mouths and ideas in their heads.

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by: AndrewBissell @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 02:50:56 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's part of the wheelin' and dealin' going on (0.00 / 0)

Note that the one Democrat who voted for the thing in committee didn't vote for it on the floor.

A negotiating tactic - dangerous - allowing these bad bills to 'at least get a floor vote'...all in seeking some level of compromised, ultimately for health care funding.

Foolish.  Foolhardy.  Stupid.  Dangerous.

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by: jhwygirl @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 13:43:46 PM UTC

Wrong. (0.00 / 0)

Not a negotiating tactic.  A RECRUITING tactic!  The christofascists now have a large stick to beat the Dems with until the next election.  They will present it as the Dems being against the Bible AND the Constitution.  Couple that with guns, and a feeling that someone's gettin' sumthin' for free that they ain't, and THAT'S enough to make more than a few morons turn red!  It's their new wedgie.  I mean, Don't Tread On My Bible, Guns, and Constitution will be their new motto.  'Course, the Dems should reply, Don't Take a Dump on Democracy!

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by: Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers! @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 14:00:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Widowmaker (3.00 / 1)

I supported secession  in 1989, 1999, and now 2009 if the majority of that state supports it.

There's your problem right there.  In no state does the majority of the polity support secession, not even in Alaska.  This thread has already been derailed far from Matt's original point, but it should be noted that the majority in the country, and in each state, not only find the idea of secession to be wrong, but a significant number do indeed find it "crazy".

Please accept this tidbit of well meant advice:  If you really want any hope of success with the Tea Party protests and advocate for legislative reform, enhanced state's rights  and debt reduction then get secession off the table right now.  To throw that word out like it's real possibility stands as a weak threat, and will be received as "crazy".

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by: Rob Kailey @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 18:17:09 PM UTC

Exactly. (0.00 / 0)

Secession is to conservatism and impeachment was to liberalism, a really bad idea wailed about by a crazy vocal minority.

Can you imagine 50 Dems in this state voting to impeach the Bush?

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by: Equo ne credite @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 18:21:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Exactly (0.00 / 0)

Well put Wulfgar.  I admit, I am waaayyy in the minority.  And it is last resort option that shouldn't be taken lightly.  Your wording makes complete sense without downing my opinion.  Thank you.

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by: Widowmaker @ Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 18:54:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]