Event Calendar
May 2012
(view month)
S M T W R F S
* * 01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31 * *
<< (add event) >>


User Blox 4
- Put stuff here

Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
1 Comments
If You Haven't Seen This
by: Rob Kailey - Apr 28
5 Comments
Impeach the President?
by: Rob Kailey - Mar 16
15 Comments
It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
7 Comments

Search




Advanced Search


Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Kathleen Sebelius Defends Public Option, Opposes Single-Payer

by: Matt Singer

Fri May 08, 2009 at 10:51:03 AM MST


Saw this linked to in a few places earlier, but I hadn't yet heard that the Obama Administration is bought and paid for by the insurance companies.

I've gotten a few emails and seen the single-payer protest clip that is below. I have to admit to being underwhelmed. If I was in Congress, I'd be inclined to give single-payer a look. But I'd probably also end up where I am now, supportive of a mix of public and private insurance options for people.

The strangest thing, though, is this idea, both here in Montana and nationally, that Max Baucus is thin line standing between America and single-payer health care. That if only Max Baucus would invite a single-payer advocate to a Finance Committee meeting that Chuck Grassley's perpetual frown would turn upside down and that we'd all move to candy mountain with Charlie the Unicorn and the healthcare would be free and have sprinkles.

But I digress.

The place we're at in health care reform right now is that there is some broad consensus among leading Democrats, ranging from Barack Obama to Kathleen Sebelius to Ted Kennedy to Max Baucus to Howard Dean, of what health care reform looks like. It includes some Medicare reform; a "connector" or "exchange" to help people navigate the insurance market; significant regulation of private insurance including guaranteed issue, community rating, and some guaranteed benefits package to be determined; and a public health insurance option in some form. To various extents, all of these players are negotiating with Republicans, pharmaceuticals, hospitals, doctors, insurance executives and others to work out something that can get passed. I'm not privy to all of those negotiations or strategy. In all likelihood, most of the readers of Left in the West aren't either.

But that's the consensus framework. There are other approaches we could, in theory, take. We could try the McCain plan. We could try single-payer. We could model the French limited multi-payer or the British NHS system. Or whatever. But we're not doing those things either.

Occasionally, people ask me why I'm supporting what I'm supporting, as though what Matt Singer supports is newsworthy in the slightest. I don't think what I support is either interesting or important.

To some extent, the constant "I have a plan" nature of policy discussions in America is good in terms of promoting serious long-term policy thought. But it isn't very useful in terms of actually getting something passed this year, which is what we're currently trying to do. For most of us, the relevant conversation on November 1st of last year was Barack Obama or John McCain, Denise Juneau or the crazy lady, etc., etc.

At some point in politics, the questions we face become binary. Healthcare reform isn't quite there yet where we crunch down to: vote to pass it or vote for the status quo. But we're at least to the later portion of the primaries, where the contestants have been winnowed down to a narrow field and, perhaps unsurprisingly, those candidates are marked more by their similarities than their differences.

Big changes in American politics take years and huge amounts of work. Even unsuccessful attempts at big changes in American politics take years and huge amounts of work. And the most incredible thing about is that even the most "powerful" players -- people like Barack Obama, Ted Kennedy, and, yes, Max Baucus -- are more caught in the storm than creating the winds.

That isn't to say we don't have power. All of us have a lot more power to kill reform than we do to get something passed. It is easier for Barack Obama to veto a bill than to pass one, for Ted Kennedy or Max Baucus to shut down an option than to get consensus for one, for a single Senator to help filibuster than to get cloture, and for activists decide that they would rather demand a full loaf than get 2/3 of one and as a result not even get a crust.

This has turned into a rant, so I'm going to stop. I'm more than happy to take feedback in comments here and, as folks may have noticed, the diary and comment options give even single-payer advocates (and even libertarians) the ability to write whatever the hell they want here (although the community can shut down comments). So by all means, let 'er rip.

Matt Singer :: Kathleen Sebelius Defends Public Option, Opposes Single-Payer
Tags: , , , , , , , (All Tags)
Bookmark and Share
Print Friendly View Send As Email

"Consensus Framework" ??? (0.00 / 0)
Not hardly.

Consensus requires that all parties get to sit down and discuss the issue, and flesh out the debate and come to agreement, or allow an agreement to be reached without sabotaging the outcome. You can't have consensus when one huge side of the equation--single payer-- has been excluded from the table. A consensus approach would have Grassley negotiating in good faith--not his duplicitous approach of also working on the republican fall-back position for when the negotiations fall apart right before the final floor vote.

You totally miss the point of the single payer protest. It isn't because of an all-or-nothing approach. It's because the majority of americans support single payer, and an alliance of 20 million supporters were denied access to participate in your "broad consensus among leading Democrats". They want to participate in the process--not just rubberstamp some backroom deal between Baucus and his pay-to-play funders. Democracy is participatory, oligarchy is not. Consensus is neither broad nor shallow. You either have it or you don't. You are either committed to working towards consensus, or you are not. And what we had on display in the Senate on tuesday was oligarchy, not consensus in action.

If you're going to parade the current state of health care reform as a consensus position, then you've really missed the boat, Matt. Building a successful coalition is one thing. Building consensus is another. What Max Baucus and the Finance committee is doing is anything but building consensus. They are preventing it.

Judging from what i've seen, your "consensus... of what health care reform looks like" is evidence that you've already "move[d] to candy mountain with Charlie the Unicorn."

The second the insurance industry sees a whiff of public plan, any and all support for stiffening regulation of their industry will vanish, and with it will vanish community ratings, guaranteed access and package minimums.

Matt, you say that "at some point in politics, the questions we face become binary." For me that binary question is whether or not I and millions like me get proper access to health care before we die early deaths. We have the choice to either provide true universal care or not. And I have yet to hear the answer on that key question from our "consensus position" in-crowd. Give me a commitment to a true universal system, and I'll be flexible on how we get there. Equivocate on true universality, and I'll take the hard line position to demand a seat at the table in order to help forge consensus. Anything less than that is just a dog and pony show and a mockery of democracy.


nobody is saying (0.00 / 0)
that max possesses a golden wand....all we are saying, is give....single payer...a chance. (nod to john lennon)

it is indeed difficult to defend the position that a legitimate viewpoint is "off the table" when discussing a change of this magnitude for health care. i do not envy max's position, but his very well-meaning past supporters feel betrayed and this will not blow over as easily as he thinks if he remains stubbornly adamant about locking single payer out of the talks.

United we stand, divided we fall.

power to the polite people!


No public option will be war (0.00 / 0)
Like the Missoula New Party/Demos rift from years ago--only statewide.  

i am not too concerned anymore... (0.00 / 0)
this baby rat is D.O.A. anyway thanks to baucuses ham-handed committee work and incompetence and or corruption.take your pick.

instead of replacing a dysfunctional health care system with one that works, he is adding a requirement that everyone participate in it without making it one iota better....

time to lay groundwork for the next session.

United we stand, divided we fall.

power to the polite people!


Just one point to consider - (0.00 / 0)

As far as Max goes, before you expect him to do anything, take a look at how much money has been funnelled into his campaigns by the medical industry, and the trial lawyers.

Do you really think he doesn't OWE these groups?

And he knows as well as you & I know that the Dems in Montana will not run anybody against him in a primary.

So if you think he can be pressured by the left in Montana, please share with me some of what you're drinking - LOL


DLC Neo-Liberal Free Mkt Suck Up Sebelius (0.00 / 0)

 We the people know who the corporate suck up Kathleen Sebelius is and her high marks for being a free market fundy on the Insurance $$$ dole and a DLC Suck-up and comer; but none so slimmy or as deep into the Insurance $$$ as AIG Baucus. Can't really call him a senator anymore he's so into the Anti-Social America; (That would be the corporations - as opposed to us flaming Socialists of National Guaranteed Health Care / HR 676)...

  Why would these big fat money machines want to pay the likes of Rogue unions like the backstabbing SEIU and the alleged Insurance Corp financed HCAN/ & nwfco a collection of orgs pushing for the Insurance Industry. They are Shills for massive profit making they are pimps and whores who could easily be on Wall Street making Credit Default Swaps; Which is what 'public option' is a Swap, a bait and Switch that crowns the insurance industry with killing  Single Payer and continues the repressive health care, also killing America.

  The main thing to see here is not the obfuscation  created by the errant, misguided Matt Singer, with his Hopalong Cassidy pseudo-left delivery but the clarity and light that Sebelius bestows on the lying corporate whores like SEIU and HCAN who have been going all over telling everyone in Montana that 'public option' is just like Single Payer, that it will hold the place of Single Payer till we can get a real Single Payer foothold on congress(?) Yeah, That's why Sebelius makes the clear distinction 'NO' to SINGLE PAYER! And what the hell does NO TO SINGLE PAYER mean??? (well i think the boot licking Insurance water boy Baucus can tell us). She says 'Yes' to public option but 'NO' to Single Payer Why? The SEIU and HCAN pimps are saying it's just like Single Payer but different in fact they mean it's NOT like Single Payer at all. Pimps like SEIU and HCAN Lie because the money is good.

  It means the corporate whores are thin as cellophane when it comes to hiding their Profit laden, Stockholder driven Insurance model. Either it's Non-Profit or its Profit driven, capitalist pig health/death by a thousand cuts or sometimes they wipe you out by just saying NO/ DENIED...Not with Single Payer - there's NO Denial! No cap, no premiums no co-pays, no bankruptcies due to under insured, job loss is a non issue...the employer is no longer the agent of the insurance industry, And this covers everything, mental, dental, recovery, HR 676 look it up.

  They wouldn't dare confront us on any stage because Single Payer is so rewarding to the system in every way. Why do you think they are trying to stifle us ???  - When Sarah Feinken, Joe Splinter, Robert Structman etc had a chance to debate this issue in a bonafide panel in Billings they put their tales between their legs and got paid for pushing Insurance dope to the unsuspecting elsewhere in Montana --- telling them that
"public option" was the best thing for America just in  case we couldn't cut the Single Payer mustard. Ohhh Gee Kathleen Sebelius HHC Sec what do you choose? Yeah that's the choice that continues right down the same horrid path of Insurance Corps lining Max Baucus coffers that we have now. Eh Max?

  Well the Fact is, WE have the numbers in every category except the legislative stacked deck and the incredible push by the  insurance companies to keep fleecing America, through the well paid rogues and pimps like HCAN and SEIU.

  Any insurance that turns a profit is 1. practicing medicine without a license and 2. Ripping YOU off, Ripping the American Consumer off. Anyone who is spreading the Toxic lies of the  Insurance industry are but their whores... nothing like calling a spade a spade eh?


What is your opinion on this Matt? (0.00 / 0)
http://townhall.com/blog/g/96e...

Weighing costs benefits to treating terminally ill or older patients?

(They show a C-Span vid, so you can skip the editorializing if you wish)

- Keeping the Left honest since 2001


Max Baucus-chief salesman for insurers, his big-money masters (0.00 / 0)
Max Baucus wishes to do to Montanans and the entire country, what Massachusetts legislators did to its' residents.  He will soon try to sell you on the "Mass Plan" for your health insurance.   I'm a resident of Massachusetts, a victim of this fraud and will tell you what he will not about this scam.  It will turn you into a criminal if you don't buy product from his suppliers-the insurance companies.  That's right, you will be fined thousands yearly for not buying health insurance.  Your intelligence and patriotism he will question when he says... "we need a uniquely American solution". What could be any less American than a health care dictatorship? Worse is that 31% of your extorted insurance dollars goes not to care but to insurance profits.  Not included is the additional cost and burden imposed by  insurance companies on hospitals, healthcare professionals, and wasteful duplicate staffing of each insurance company.  Max will prey on your human sentiments to offer insurance to the needy.  He will not tell you that you will be paying for all of the coverage for the poor through his hidden tax via your massive monthly premiums that will cover their costs, insurers profit margins, and their bloated bureaucracies feeding at our trough.  Costs to insurers is minimized by keeping your deductibles and out of  pocket costs sky high.  You'll get a policy so full of holes that no legislator would accept it.  In Ma. a 49y.o. couple earning just $43,000 is bound by law to purchase a $7000 policy.  It's not real insurance, it has a $2000 deductible each, 20% co-pays for major costs, layers of red tape and hoops for you to jump through.  It is a nightmare.  Real insurance for a family , the type Mr. Baucus enjoys, will run you $13,914+.  Eliminate insurance companies and pay just a fraction!  Canada recently made possible the sale of private insurance of the type Mr Baucus is selling.  Not ONE policy was sold, read more here: http://cdm-mcrp.blogspot.com/

Don't take this abuse, Montana.  All Americans should demand the best from elected officials which is single payer.  Learn more here: http://www.medicareforall.org/...

Single payer already exists in many forms in America.  Our police and fire departments, public works and military are all single payer and are among the best investments our country has made,  Demand elected officials represent us, not big monied insurance interests. Insurers and their shills are a tireless lot, fueled by untold sums, they've co-opted the political process here just as bankers did resulting in our current economic disaster. Big insurance hopes to do to the nation what they've done to MA residents. If they succeed, it will be the single greatest redistribution of citizenry cash into private industry pockets ever fashioned by our elected officials.


Weighing costs benefits to treating terminally ill or older patients? (0.00 / 0)
The Mass Plan Baucus and Sebilius is trying to sell you is already doing this, if you like private insurance and believe they'll do right by you then keep it just don't mandate the entire country buy it as they did in Massachusetts.  Tommy Douglas  spearheaded efforts for Canadas national healthcare-a single payer system. In 2004 a national television poll named Tommy Douglas the greatest Canadian ever, largely due to his championing of medicare.  Private insurance has not given up hope of ruining lives and running up costs as they have in the US.  Recently Canada allowed the sale of private insurance.  Canadians have not bought ONE policy!  Read more about this and how Americans are being urged they go to Singapore for major surgery in order to keep in place the healthcare system Baucus and Seblius champion: http://blog.timesunion.com/coa...

Don't be swayed by foolish talk that single-payer will take away your rights etc.- that's a red herring designed to fool the simple and ignorant into working against our common interest for humane affordable healthcare.


It's not a red herring (0.00 / 0)
And if it was being done now, I wouldn't have watched my mother and other older people get premium care even though they were dying and it wouldn't have helped...

This will be done, no matter what kind of health coverage we're talking about if the government is in charge.  

No one has answered the question... that was a C-Span hearing!  It's not some theoretical... it's happening now.


- Keeping the Left honest since 2001


[ Parent ]
Compromised Care (0.00 / 0)
This is being done in Massachusetts right now-but under private non government plans which you are MANDATED to buy or face charges of tax evasion and thousands in fines.  Private or public will be under cost constraints and forced to make these choices. Obama recently commented on his grandmother having hip surgery even as she was dying from cancer-cost effective treatment, if there's such a phrase for our care, will be brought into the equation for both public/private. I urge you look here to see how Canadians reacted to a chance to buy the type of insurance we will ALL be forced to purchase by Baucus and Sebelius-not one policy was sold:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montr...

Here's a very informative discussion of the failed American healthcare system and Canadas relative success:  http://worldfocus.org/blog/200...


[ Parent ]
Canada also has rationing and wait times. (0.00 / 0)
No argument about Mass.  Just the point that it happens, and I was wondering what Matt thought about it.  In general.

- Keeping the Left honest since 2001

[ Parent ]
And what about the rationing (0.00 / 0)
that 46+million Americans endure right now? Rationed right out of the health care system with infinite wait times for any procedures.

At least a government bureaucrat will have to let you into a public plan. Insurance company bureaucrats get paid bonuses for rationing those with preexisting conditions right out of the private health care industry.


[ Parent ]
One more point on Max Baucus (0.00 / 0)
In case anyone here still believes they are seen as anything other than a cash cow to be drained by health insurers:
www.thepolicycenter.org believes that Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT) Should Recuse Himself From Any Health Care Financing Reform Leadership Position.  "According to the Center for  Responsive Politics, during 2003-2008, Max Baucus received $588,185 from the insurance industry and $523,313 from the pharmaceutical/health product industry."

Read  about his conflict of interest in the March 6, 2009 posting at:
http://www.thepolicycenter.org/


Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


Bookmark and Share

Poll
Voting. Useful or not?
Yes!
No!
Maybe, but only if you vote my way.
There are theories that ...
Meh ...

Results

Blog Roll
  • A Secular Franciscan Life
  • Big Sky Blog
  • David Crisp's Billings Blog
  • Discovering Urbanism
  • Ecorover
  • Great Falls Firefly
  • Intelligent Discontent
  • Intermountain Energy
  • Lesley's Podcast
  • Livingston, I Presume
  • Great Falls Firefly
  • Montana Cowgirl
  • Montana Main St.
  • Montana Maven
  • Montana With kids
  • Patia Stephens
  • Prairie Mary
  • Speedkill
  • Sporky
  • The Alberton Papers
  • The Fighting Liberal
  • The Montana Capitol Blog
  • The Montana Misanthrope
  • Thoughts From the Middle of Nowhere
  • Treasure State Judaism
  • Writing and the West
  • Wrong Dog's Life Chest
  • Wulfgar!

  • Powered by: SoapBlox