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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Is the proposed benefits tax progressive?

by: Jay Stevens

Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 15:48:00 PM MST


Saw this article on taxing health-care benefits over at Ezra Klein's new digs at the WaPo. There's an interesting bit from an Economic Policy Institute report on the people who tend to use the "premium" health-care policies that Max Baucus suggested in his white paper we tax:

...research shows that those people tend not to be wealthy highfliers with gold-plated insurance plans, as advocates assert, but those who have to pay high premiums just for basic coverage -- the old, the sick, women of childbearing age and residents of high-cost urban areas. Elise Gould, director of health policy research at the liberal Economic Policy Institute, found that a similar cap suggested by a 2005 tax reform panel would have raised taxes mainly on workers with family coverage, many of them in smaller firms with high concentrations of older, female or unionized workers.

Klein:

Gould's research showed that 32 percent of families making between $17,000 and $30,000 have health-care benefits above $11,500, which is where Gould assumed the exclusion would be capped. But 47 percent of workers making more than $46,000 had benefits above that cap. And though Gould didn't break the data down, I can almost guarantee you that that number would be much higher if you examined workers making more than $100,000. The cap is progressive, and sharply so.

Max Baucus, meanwhile, is only considering taxing benefits above $15,000. Which makes it significantly more progressive than the policy Gould is evaluating.

I'm not sure how progressive this tax would be. First, that the tax would kick in for half of wage earners making $46K seems absurdly low. Those are the very families that are being slaughtered by health care costs. Second, the assumption that the cost of health plans for people making more than $100K rises sharply is faulty; at some point, health care premiums top out. You can only spend so much on a health insurance policy. To me, this cap looks like a burden shouldered disproportionately by middle-class to upper-middle-class families.

Still, the $15K cap seems doable. While the EPI study tells us that "gold-plated" policies are held by people who are paying exorbitantly high rates because of age or demographics or history, there's legislation being mulled in Congress that would impose "community rating" on insurance companies:

Community rating would render it illegal for insurers to price discriminate based on the demographics of the applicant. In the draft bill released by the Senate's Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee, for instance, "premium rates may not vary by health status-related factors, gender, class of business, claims experience." They can vary by age and geography, but the amount they can vary is actually capped.

If passed, that would ensure that high insurance premiums would correspond directly to the services received, not be a insurer-defined judgment of risk. Those that need it should still be able to afford it.

Still, and as I've said before, we need to encourage more people to spend more on policies, not the other way around. That's the whole basis of mandatory coverage after all. If those that don't need the health care...now....pay more into the system, it makes prices for all lower.

But give me a strong public option, and I'd gladly agree to a cap...

Jay Stevens :: Is the proposed benefits tax progressive?
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Factually untrue (0.00 / 0)
Private insurance companies either have to operate under a public mandate that we buy their policies, or be subsidized, or both.

No.  They could operate in an actual system of competition, just not in the way that they have.  That is exactly what Jay was discussing, and you ignored.  Oh wait, you didn't ignore it:

Your assumptions will only work if it is a government-run system. Odd as it seems, that's the only way a health insurance market can function for our benefit.

You simply ignored that that was exactly what Jay was promoting.  So, quite clearly, you just have a personal beef with anyone who doesn't promote your special snowflake-ism

Your pompous and baseless pronouncements are really your undoing, Mark.


[ Parent ]
I'll take that bet.. (0.00 / 0)
Mostly because I don't think you understand the stakes.  Neither does Mark, though he does pay homage when he councils failure ...

So, what is your ante, Jed?


[ Parent ]
Neener Neener (0.00 / 0)
You're the snowflake.

Well I guess I've been told.

I don't know if you noticed, but you are the one throwing the snarky taunts and condescending put-downs, and it likely has to do with a personal beef of some kind.

Mark, I do have a personal beef and I've explained it very clearly multiple times.  You obstinately, arrogantly continue to attribute failure to others that is unfounded and often ridiculous.  The personal part is that you've done that to me, and continue, even when I agree with you.

You have been consistent, Mark.  You've been consistently behaving like a jackass.  What you haven't been consistent about is your 'policy preference'.  First, it was single payer.  Then, single payer became a toss off point of compromise.  Then it was strong public op ... no wait.  The evil devil Max has corrupted that so lets just fail with it all, says Mark T.  Now you're (apparently) back to single payer.  You've shown no consistency at all, save your disdain for Left in the West, your hatred for Max, your generalized loathing of Democrats and your need for insurance companies to DIE! DIE! DIE!

Here's the point.  You have been consistent about your political preference.  You've been adamant about it; almost as adamant as you have been that no one understands things as well as you. What you haven't, in any way, shape or form, been consistent about is your policy preference. Look at your own words:

I have been consistent throughout and saying what my policy preference is (no you haven't), acknowledging that we will have to settle for less but advising that we must fight for it nonetheless to maintain a credible bargaining position,

That's politics, not policy.

and warning that Matt and jay and the democrats are being led down a garden path.

That's politics, not policy.

I have also laid out, in detail, the reason why the business model for private insurance does not work for anyone or anything but their bottom line.

Now that's economic ideology, not policy or politics.  You want to make it politics, and that's fine, but when I point that out, you attack like a kitten being belly scratched.  And after months of you moving goalposts, and spewing the same vacuous crap, you can only suggest that I have a problem with you.  No shit Sherlock.  You think you know, at least at the moment, where you want to go and you haven't the first clue how to get people on board with the Mark train.  And when someone points that out, it's somehow mysterious why they don't get your awesomely consistent inconsistency.

Figure out the difference between politics and policy and ideology.  Then take a stand.  You can learn to quit insulting everyone around you, and I'll quit insulting you back.  Won't that be fun?


[ Parent ]
This is bizarre! (0.00 / 0)
Wulfgar calls Mark T a "snowflake." Mark T responds: "You're the snowflake." Wulfgar reacts: "Well I guess I've been told."

How about a beer and shots duel? First man under the table is a "snowflake." First kitten under the table is a "hand-wringing pussy."

Rules: No negotiations allowed! Judge: Dave Budge!


[ Parent ]
hate to interrupt kung fu fighting over here but... (0.00 / 0)
it is all over but the shouting now boys....http://4and20blackbirds.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/its-worse-than-i-thought-possible-even-for-max/

United we stand, divided we fall.

power to the polite people!


[ Parent ]
You can't be serious! ??? (0.00 / 0)
...it is all over but the shouting now boys.

United we stand...

power to the ... (what?)... people!


[ Parent ]
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