Become lobbyists for the public option

Spot on (0.00 / 0)

Jay you and Hoomai29 hit it out of the park with that wise observation. Very few "W's" are achieved by acting like a sore-assed, angry, growling bear waking up from hibernation who slobbers in someones face.  

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by: Craig Moore @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 22:26:21 PM UTC

Um, if you knew (0.00 / 0)

how some of the so called "sore-assed, angry, growling bears" conducted their daily affairs, you'd know that those people actually have a lot of "W's" in their lives.  

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by: JC @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 22:46:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

i appreciate the compliment craig... (0.00 / 0)

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by: problembear @ Fri Jul 31, 2009 at 22:50:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

pretty interesting.... (0.00 / 0)

that an avowed health insurance weasel advocate would applaud this approach don't you think? hmmm. can you say delay, divert, and derail campers???

bears have a saying here in the woods, jay-a snake in the grass is a snake in the grass no matter how sweetly it hisses......

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by: problembear @ Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 18:42:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

There you go making nicey again ... (0.00 / 0)

One, you don't have enough money to get their attention. Two, you are trying to work the nice side of the street, but are not showing them how you can hurt them., That doesn't work.

Bit I do agree that letting lefties do their protests is counterproductive. The news media will avoid what goes on inside the compound, but if there are wild-eyed moptops on stilts with goofy T-shirts, that will make the ten o'clock  news. It's part of protecting the people in power - to alienate the public from the opposition.

Professional lobbyists work three sides of the street. One, there is money, and lots of it. There is schmoozing, and making these guys feel important and comfortable. But there's also a negative side - all that money, all those perks, go to someone else if these guys don't play ball.It was no accident that Baucus was unopposed in '08 - he's a good and valuable Republican.

But there's even more. Did you think that Bush was wiretapping terrists? Not hardly - he was after the media and the congress. There is likely compromising information out there on all these guys. That's the third side of the street- blackmail.

That's what you are up against. You have a little power, and public opinion, which is diffuse and disorganized. You have to be creative, make a lot from a little. This ain't it.

But keep working at it. You are making progress. Soon enough, you will have an idea that might do some good!

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by: Mark t @ Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 05:45:44 AM UTC

Actually (0.00 / 0)

The Chronicle write up of the protest was extremely favorable.  The picture of Margie from Montana (she told me she prefers that) on the front page has impact.  She's holding a sign that says "For Sale ...Max Baucus".  No craziness, no out of control exposition of radicals.  The article was, dare I say, sympathetic.

As to what happened inside the compound, that is simply what is allowed for a private party (even a political fundraiser.)  I know you disagree with that, (I do too), but then you wouldn't have been the one arrested for barging on in ...

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by: Rob Kailey @ Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 22:39:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I must say ... (0.00 / 0)

That after I saw the Chronicle headline, which I think I will scan for my blog, I thought to myself -"Well done!" They made a lot of a little, which is what has to be done. That headline was a screamer, and would not have been there save for a few activists of the non-blogging variety.  

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by: Mark t @ Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 23:06:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If single-payer is what you want, ask for it. (0.00 / 0)

Asking a politician for two things guarantees the thoughest give will be gone immediately.  Ask for what you want.  Confusion favors the politician.  These guys can't handle complex issues.  Complex deals, yes.  Complex issues, no.  

There are voters and doners.  If you have money, run tv spots.  Run them over and over again. If you are like most Montanans, you can vote for, or vote against the policies, the man or woman, or the party.  But, if you are not willing to withhold your vote for a principle you believe in, well, you're not even in the game.  

So, Jay, is it single-payer or public option you advocate?  If it's public option, I'd be real curious to know that you think that is and how confident you are in that definition holding as this congressional battle progresses.  

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by: steve kelly @ Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 16:32:30 PM UTC

Give money to people who aren't representing your interests? (1.00 / 1)

Jay -  I'll send you the Kumbayah song book so you can raise money for the people who aren't representing your interests -- but you can hold hands and feel good while you're at it.

Quite frankly, I suspect the Camp Baucus protest yesterday reached a LOT more people and we had a GREAT time doing it.  Just wondering, where were you?  

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by: ochenski @ Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 16:45:59 PM UTC

Cheap shot, George. N/T (0.00 / 0)

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by: Rob Kailey @ Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 22:41:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I was there, Wulfgar -- I get to take the shot. Give it up on your defense of the indefensible. (0.00 / 0)

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by: ochenski @ Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 20:40:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No (0.00 / 0)

Demanding that others prove their worth by having 'been there', knowing full well that other lives in Pennsylvania is just a cheap shot.  It's bullshit, George.  You know it; I know it and Jay knows it.

You took the shot, George.  You fired at the wrong object.  Baucus was in your sights and you fire at a guy 2000 miles away?

Not so good shootin', Tex.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 22:19:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Kind of a lazy observation ... (0.00 / 0)

considering that the topic of discussion was an event that Max was attending, wouldn't you agree, jed?

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by: Rob Kailey @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 00:31:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Actually, (0.00 / 0)

Max didn't even attend.

Baucus will not be attending the Montana fundraiser this weekend because he will be working on the health care bill in Washington, a spokesman said.

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by: JC @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 03:30:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wrong again, Wulfie (0.00 / 0)

`What makes you think everyone knows Jay was in Pennsylvania when he posted?  He didn't, after all, open his post with "From here in Pennsylvania, I think Montanans should open their wallets to gain access to their elected Senators."  And JC already corrected you on your erroneous post that Max was at Camp Baucus.  

We knew he wouldn't be there when my wife and I spent 8 hours driving to Big Sky and back and another 5 hours holding up signs protesting Max's insurance and health industry sell-out. We went to create what they call "earned media," which we "earned" by investing our time and energy in the event. Do you really think anyone would get even a paragraph on a front page of a Montana newspaper for dropping a check in the bucket at a Tester fundraiser?  Do you really think they'd have their issues aired in a story?  

Given the choice, I'd much rather continue the long-standing tradition of publicly protesting bought-out politicians (and their policies) rather than trying to compete with the millions of dollars a week DC lobbyists are spending to buy access.

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by: ochenski @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 16:41:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"bought-out politicians" (0.00 / 0)

George, it looks like you got your work cut out for you for the 2010 cycle.  http://www.opensecrets.org/ind...

For the 2010 cycle the Health industry is favoring D's over R's by 62% to 38%.  For 2008 the Health industry gave $167,226,103 with 54% going to D's.  Just how are you going to get those congress critters to unclench their fingers wrapped around that kind of dough and shoot straight?

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by: Craig Moore @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 17:05:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Stick to the point, George (0.00 / 0)

I never questioned your dedication to the cause, your effort, or the reason for you being there.  I simply pointed out that your no-class slam against Jay was just that:  a no-class slam.  Not everybody knows he now lives in PA, but you do.

And I never wrote that Max was there, Georgie.  I said the topic of discussion was an event that "Max was attending".  That he didn't didn't change a single thing, as you freely admit.  Or are you going to tell me now that the protest was organized after it was known that Max wouldn't be there?

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by: Rob Kailey @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 20:02:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

thanks for the defense, Wulfie... (0.00 / 0)

...but there's truth to the accusation. It is hard to read the MT tea leaves from Erie -- I shy away from it and try to concentrate on politics or policy, but this or any other blog would be better for having attended events like this.

I'd be thrilled if someone would post a first-hand account with pics and everything...

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by: Jay Stevens @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 20:10:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Missing Max (0.00 / 0)

Wulfie - We absolutely knew Max wouldn't be there well before anyone made the arrangements to leave town for the day.  The signs were for the big-bucks boys and girls who were rolling into Camp Baucus, laying down their $2,500-$5,000 and buying access to talk to staffers for their pieces of silver.

Of significant interest is that Baucus won't even release the names of those who attended Camp Baucus this year.  Oh, they'll show up somewhere in the campaign finance reports, but why wouldn't Montana's senior senator just release the list up front?  I'll answer my own question -- because it's too damn embarrassing to let people know, at this critical juncture in the health care debate, just how much he continues to rake in from whom.  

And I'm not worried about you questioning my dedication or anything else, Wulfie old boy.  What I told you about Jay -- and whether I knew he was in PA at the time or not is true.  You can believe what you want, but not everyone lives on LiTW and follows the everyday movements of all the posters.  Like I said, there was no evidence Jay's post came from PA, so the assumption that everyone should know that seems a tad on the loose logic side.

I still find it kind of funny watching Max's defenders backpedal on their earlier support of Baucus -- from his "white paper" on.  And just for keeping the record straight, Max's paper didn't start the health care discussion, there was a little something called HR676 in the House, which contains a single-payer plan and will be coming up for debate and a vote in September.  

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by: ochenski @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 14:54:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That's funny, Georgie (0.00 / 1)

I didn't call "everybody" out for being a cheap shot artist.  Just you.  'Glad to know it's becoming habitual with you.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 19:49:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Steve, I'm curious? (0.00 / 0)

What did you think was 'trolling'?  Pointing out the factually obvious to one in denial of his own weak misbehavior?  Or calling the vaunted Mr. Oschenski "Georgie"?  Or perhaps, you simply can't handle someone who sees how self-important you and Georgie have become on property that isn't yours.  After all, a lesser person might have started using diminutives and called you squatters.  Funny, Georgie started that, and yet you don't troll rate him.  So certainly, that can't be the case, lest you be logically shown a hypocrite.  Are you a hypocrite?

Regardless, inquiring minds want to know.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 20:48:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tainted money (0.00 / 0)

Just which "Democratic candidates" are getting paid off through "Camp Baucus?" They need to explain themselves.

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by: JAYoung @ Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 21:43:35 PM UTC

Lets us not (0.00 / 0)

forget that Baucus was THE highest ranking Democrat supporting, and leading, the rah-rah for Bush's disastrous tax cuts..so I am in no mood for cutting him ANY SLACK on health care...I don't care if he is "Montana's Max"...he does more harm than good...and ANY event that is out there reminding Montanans what a pompous ass he is...is ok by me!

I think Max is waking up a whole lot of "angry bears"....

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by: big sage @ Sun Aug 02, 2009 at 00:31:14 AM UTC