Baucus, Obama, and "bipartisanship"

Public support (0.00 / 0)

Consistent with the troubling warnings from the Rasmussen, Pew, and Gallup polls there is now the Quinnipiac poll.  http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x129...

As I have said before it's going to take tri-partisanship to get this done. I will add to do otherwise, it will lead to political suicide to ignore public opinion.

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 14:47:12 PM UTC

political suicide... (0.00 / 0)

...to pay too careful attention to current polls, when a neutered reform would turn constituents permanently against the Democratic party, and meaningful reform would turn constituents permanently behind the Democratic party.

All you need to know is that anti-reform activists are scaring the bejeezus out of seniors by claiming health care reform will threaten their government-provided health insurance.

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by: Jay Stevens @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 15:29:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My concern troll detectors are starting to go off (0.00 / 0)

Fortunately, public opinion will eventually be informed by the success or failure of reform, once it passes.

That is what republicans are most afeared about: that reform passes and people like it. Sure, there will be the usual rightwing and conservative wailing and gnashing of teeth if reform passes. And the same nasty elements we see trying to disrupt the townhalls will just keep spewing their venom about reform. It just isn't in republican's political interests to see reform--of any kind--pass. It represents a victory for democrats, and they'll do anything to prevent that.

But reform is not about appeasing astroturfing, rightwing zealots. But that is what is driving the polls and the media right now. And it is phony.

If bipartisanship is an unattainable myth in the current political climate, tripartisandhip is that difficulty squared.

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by: JC @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 18:34:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC I think you're right (0.00 / 0)

current polls are being driven by phony hysteria and a media that gives them more coverage than they deserve...

Look, these guys did this back in 2000 down in Florida...sent their Congressional staffs down there to "storm the court house" as if it was a spontaneous uprising..and make sure the crown was placed on Bush's head...it was phony then...

And they did it again 3 months ago...they had their boy Santori(or whatever his name is) go on CNBC and throw is little rant about "losers" and how it was time for a new tea party...ALL OF IT STAGED...and that led to the April 15th "tea baggers"....that was just the warm up for this...

And of course the MORON Democrats played right into their hands...they gave them the entire month of August to spread fear and misinformation, and stage their "town hall" theatrics.....

Bipartisanship? Bullshit....

There will be NO health care reform...not in my life time.

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by: bigsage @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 20:02:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Have faith. (0.00 / 0)

The adults are in charge, for once.  You may not get what you want, but this won't go away.

(And for Georgie, Mark and the 'let's pick safe enemies' crowd out there, no.  I'm not talking about Max Baucus.)

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by: Rob Kailey @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 20:36:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Trolling, are we? (0.00 / 0)

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by: Mark t @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 22:08:25 PM UTC

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How could that possibly be trolling? N/T (0.00 / 0)

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by: Rob Kailey @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 22:21:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

In a different sense ... (0.00 / 0)

Trying to get a rise out of me or Georgie

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by: Mark t @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 14:05:32 PM UTC

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My advice is don't feed the trolls, Mark. It just encourages them. (0.00 / 0)

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by: Steve W. @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 17:57:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC and concern troll flies (0.00 / 0)

JC your little missive brings up the image of the alley drunk swating at imaginary flies, and shouting at imaginary enemies while swearing up and down they are real.

My participation at LiTW on these important issues appears to have become a distraction.  I will end it.  Just watch out for the hot breath of pink elephants behind you.  

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 20:47:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Distraction? (0.00 / 0)

Not hardly. I have enjoyed our repartees. A blog would be no fun if everybody though and wrote the same. You at least come in here and (mostly) keep it nonpersonal--images of me as alley drunk aside (those days are behind me). You've provided an excellent point-of-view with which spar.

As to my "missive," I have a long history of observing (and participating) in citizen advocacy, in a wide variety of different ways. So when I observe the actions of right-wing crazies, I feel comfortable comparing it to the actions of the left-wing crazies I used to run with, and commenting on it. The main differences being one of who's instigating the actions (paying for it and writing the scripts), and for what purpose.

The actions of the brownshirts at townhalls, the Brooks Brothers Brigades, and the funding and organizing by all of the industries, lobbyists, foundations and front groups is a treat for me to observe. It is pure astroturfing, and reveals the lows that the "grasstops" will stoop to while trying to create an image of authenticity. And how they are able to manipulate the media and polls is good fodder to add to the playbook.

But please don't go, on my behalf. And that pink elephant breathing down my neck as I take notes is just a riled up fringe teabagger at a townhall doing the industry's dirty work.

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by: JC @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 21:11:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Craig ... (0.00 / 0)

As someone vastly more familiar with your behavior than others in this rather insular grouping, I'm asking you politely not to leave.  The distraction you provide is actually relevant, and it turns out, necessary.  Notice, I will argue with you at every turn, but I think you know that.

The only distraction you provide are for the liberal purity mavens who think they have a victory here.  What you provide for JC (at the risk of speaking for him) and myself is a foil upon which to hone further argument.  Your comment above was concern trolling, but that was kinda the point.  The distraction are those who seek to command obedience from the website and it's writers.  Our responses to you will likely not be of the most polite nature, but rest assured that when JC or myself engage you, we do so without the delusion that we run a show.  Others, maybe not so much.

Do not be so quick to dismiss disagreement, even disagreeable disagreement.  Lao Tzu teaches that to know a 'man', know his motives.  Wulfgar teaches 'keep 'em guessing'.  Don't you dare flee when things might again get interesting.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 21:12:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wulfgar and JC (0.00 / 0)

It sounds like I'm the useful idiot, like Rudy, to prepare you for greater opponents.  Wulfgar, you and I have had some serious bar fights at ECW with broken glass and furniture.  

I've read LiTW for about 3 years and refrained until now from participating. To be quite honest, I have felt inadequate to carry the counter-point to the arguments.  I am hard-wired right.  That is who I am. Most of my friends are hard-wired left. We tend not to inflict ideology on our friendships.  Something I appreciate about Montanans. How did we become friends?  Don't really know.  I can only guess it came with a smile and a handshake and knowledge of values far more important than politics. In addition my misgivings of adequacy, I have felt that a blog called Left in The West should have its boundaries respected.  I finally joined the discussion when Steve W went over-the-top, in my opinion.  I felt compelled to take a swing. I know people who work at insurance companies.  They form the backbone of communities with their civic and community service.  Calling them criminal was just too much.

JC, so you think I'm a right wing crazy.  I can live with that.  To suggest I'm part of some conspiracy orchestrated to disrupt, I can't accept that.  I'm merely a "Who" that Horton rarely hears.

When I bring out the worst in people here, I have to question whether it's constructive to the blog owners. It's their house.  

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by: Craig Moore @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 01:13:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Aw Craig, you are making me blush. You mean I inspired you? Well I take that as a compliment. (0.00 / 0)

I'm sure that the lady who answered the phone at the WR Grace mine up in Libby was a very nice person.

But the CEO, the President, the higher ups, the people who actually make the decisions killed and maimed hundreds of residents of Libby for profit. They knew what asbestos is, what it does,  and they knew their product was full of asbestos.

I don't blame the nice lady who answered the phones for that. Same with the health insurance companies.

If you don't want to tell me the name of your handle on Democratic Underground, I'm sure it's because you want to hide the fact that you are a right winger from the good people at Democratic Underground. That's the choice you made.

It's you who have to live a lie, though. Not me. I'm a lefty and I'm proud of it. No sneaking around for me, no sir.

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by: Steve W. @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 05:39:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I wasn't calling you a right wing crazy (0.00 / 0)

I was referring to all of the video reports i  was viewing about the town hall disruptions. Now if you happened to be in one of those videos, then maybe that explains why your ears were burning... ;-0

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by: JC @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 06:33:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Light is a product of both heat and friction" (0.00 / 0)

Can't tipe.  

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by: Mark t @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 14:10:16 PM UTC

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Craig - I was surprised to find you here at LITW (0.00 / 0)

And glad. This place needs conservatives to mess it up. There's nothing to be gained by a bunch of liberals yakking it up amongst themselves. As I like to say, light it a product both of heat and friction.

The fact that your being here annoyed anyone is troubling. They have more to learn from you than each other, and you from them.  

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by: Mark t @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 14:09:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Whacko rightwingers to demonstrate at Obama's Bozeman "town hall" meeting?" (0.00 / 0)

The last few days I have seen all the well-organized whacko right wing nut job groups doing their best to destroy any semblance of respect by disrupting town hall meetings being held in the home districts of Democratic congress men and women.  The purpose of these meetings was to explain the health care plan as it has progressed to date, and to answer any questions the audience might have.  But no, these informational meetings were reduced to chaos by the yelling, sign-carrying right-wing demonstrators.  Shame on them.

Remember how the Bushies dealt with the possibility that could happen to them?  They screened each and every person admitted to their "public" hearings--especially those with President Bush in attendance. If you weren't a card-carrying far right conservative Republican, you were denied admittance.

It's strange, isn't it, how quickly the other side forgets its manners.

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by: Gypsy @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 02:59:34 AM UTC

what is strange is that the party of no forbids dissent... (0.00 / 0)

and the party of new ideas welcomes it...

well, i find it strange anyway since the party of no talks a lot about freedom....but rarely practices it.

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by: problembear @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 18:59:32 PM UTC