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Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
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If You Haven't Seen This
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It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Is single payer health care unpopular? Or misunderstood?

by: Jay Stevens

Tue Aug 11, 2009 at 09:08:03 AM MST


A Rasmussen poll was released today about the popularity of single-payer health care. According to the poll, only 32 percent favor single-payer health care, while 57 percent are opposed to it.

What to make of this? Without seeing the question, it's hard to make much of a conclusion. That's because the public's support of single-payer health care varies wildly depending how the question is asked. (Here's a link to previous polls for an illustration.) In fact, this Rasmussen poll is the first that found single-payer backers in the minority. Is it an outlier - or the result of months of Republican fear-mongering? Certainly those polled aren't overly familiar with the details of single-payer health care: only 24 percent thought that a single-payer system would lower costs.

In another, related poll, Rasmussen found that 51 percent "fear" the government more than private insurance companies. Which is kind of astounding, given that insurance companies have neither arms nor prisons. This poll, of course, is being used to explain why single-payer health insurance is unpopular; but those results belie the polls on Medicare users, who rate their insurance and care consistently higher than those who have private insurance. And we've seen how people react to the idea that Medicare benefits might be threatened. Yet a number of people don't realize that Medicare is a government program.

I have to agree with Steven Taylor:

...public opinion polling is mostly useful under two basic conditions: when there is a clear choice regarding the issue being polled and when public information in the target population is high. Neither of those factor exist in regards to this poll. As such, it really isn't especially useful.

The astonishing ignorance around health care reform is reflected in the right-wing blog reaction to the Rasmussen poll.

Gaius of Blue Crab Boulevard writes, "Rasmussen's latest poll shows ObamaCare dropping like a rock," while Howie from the Jawa Report exults in the poll, chirping "Go ahead congress [sic], make the voters [sic] day, I double dog dare you." Of course, that single-payer health care has anything to do with any of the reforms being batted around in Congress has to come as a complete shock to single-payer advocates. We've discussed the details of the various plans ad naseum on this blog, so you know single-payer health care ain't in the equation.

Gateway Pundit ratchets up the ignorance: "Only 32% of Americans favor Obama's plan for a single-payer system," GP writes. "This video shows how ordinary Americans feel about getting socialized health care rammed down their throats by this Congress." Likewise, PowerLine's John confuses single-payer health care with socialized medicine:

Today's Rasmussen survey has data that shed considerable light on the health care debate. The question posed to likely voters was whether they favor a single-payer health care system. ("Single payer" is a euphemism for socialized medicine.) Americans overwhelmingly reject government medicine, 57-32 percent.

Of course, we've been over this before. "Socialized medicine" means that the government owns and runs all of the health care facilities and employs the health care workers. (Think VA.) "Single-payer health care" is a system where there's essentially one insurance provider. (It doesn't even have to be a government insurance provider.) Health care facilities and workers remain as they are.

Other little tidbits of ignorance abound in the reactions, too. Take this:

Obama says you can keep your plan if you like it (interestingly, he keeps saying that the entire system is broken and sucks, yet, you can keep the same health insurance that is broken and sucks?), and, he is correct. You can. Until you decide you want to make a change, even a tiny one. Then you must move into a government approved one. If you work for certain really big companies, you have a 5 year grace period before any change forces you into a government approved plan.

I have no idea what William Teach is talking about. "Government approved" plan? All insurance plans are already "government approved," in that they have to conform to the regulation and laws governing insurance in the various states. Or does he mean, a "government run" public option? Which is also false. I assume he's unclear on the concept of the Health Insurance Exchange, where people meeting certain criteria (right now in the written House proposal, those working in very small companies, the uninsured, and the unemployed) have the right to essentially shop around for the best plan, which might include a public option. But no one will be compelled to take any particular plan - although there's likely to be a mandate to take some kind of plan.

All-in-all, the profound ignorance seeping from these blogs is astonishing. And these are supposed to be the people who are, you know, actually interested in politics and policy. No wonder Tea Baggers are running around interrupting public meetings with slogans about "socialized medicine" and other delusional claims. They have no friggin' idea what they're actually protesting, do they?

Jay Stevens :: Is single payer health care unpopular? Or misunderstood?
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Well, the teabaggers seem to be worried that Obama will take away their Medicare (0.00 / 0)
If he could just answer.. "We are going to stregnthen Medicare and in fact accomplish Medicare for All so that everyone can enjoy the program that you enjoy and so that everyone will want it to be strong forever," it would be an easy sell.

Easier I think than selling a mish mash of brand new concepts which are multiple proposals without any real definition.


Very effective agitprop (0.00 / 0)
The American public is being whipped up into a frenzy by a very deliberate and well-planned propaganda campaign. Sometime in the not-too-distant future we will learn the name of the company behind it, just as we learned that it was Hill and Knowlton that was behind the Iraqi incubator story in 1991.

As amazing as the claims in the initial viral emails were - death panels and euthanization of senior citizens, I thought they would go nowhere. But these PR people who designed this campaign obviously know what they are doing. It's very, very impressive.

Agitation propaganda ("agitprop") can be very dangerous, causing panic and riots. It has to be professionally designed and controlled. The very first truly sophisticated propaganda campaign in the U.S. was the Creel Commission's to campaign get us into World War I. People were fed horror stories about babies being killed by "Huns"and were rioting and burning books - right here in Montana. It was scary effective. And it's even scarier to realize that the PR industry has learned a lot since that time.

Frankly, we are overmatched. There's nothing we can do. The Democrats don't know how to counter this, and many of them are probably are OK with it anyway.

It's pretty much over.  


Yes, Mark...they learned something (0.00 / 0)
from Florida 2000...refined it with the initial tea bag efforts back in April (shored up their email addy's and put together organizations, phone trees, etc) with THIS IN MIND...kill any attempt to reform health care that would come along.

If they are successful the corporate money will flow to these astroturf organizers (republican pr firms)and democracy as we knew it, will be gone forever.


[ Parent ]
Democracy "as we know it" (0.00 / 0)
needs to die.  

[ Parent ]
Jay there is absolutely (0.00 / 0)
nothing astounding about those poll...The health care industry, and the main stream media, have done an excellent job of creating fear, by spreading lies, and misinformation about health care reform...on top of that, they are giving millions in BRIBES to members of Congress to assure they get what they want...

The deck...as always...is stacked in their favor! You  have right wing politician going on main stream TV, using talking points given to them by the Lowuuen (?) Group...a "think tank" owned by United Health Care, and NO ONE CALLS THEM ON THIS!!!??????

This whole excersise serves to point out...to remind us...HOW CORRUPT our so called democracy has become...the ease by which  the corporate PR machine has turned everyday people against their best interests is shocking, disturbing, and to be quite honest does not bode well for the future of America.


Holy Shit! (0.00 / 0)
The enemy makes inroads and there's folk here who blame the failure of Democracy?  Get a fracking grip, people.

Yes, people are being lied to.  But the failure isn't one of Democracy or our Constitution.  It's that we, the people, are too damned weak to stand up to obvious lies.

I spent 45 minutes today, when I couldn't spare those minutes, telling a couple of co-workers just a few facts about how they are being lied to.  Here's what I gleaned.  They know they're being lied to, they really do.  But some lies are scarier than others.  I calmed them down because I know that these leis come with a binary.  0) Health care reform will kill grandma and baby Twig.  1)  The proponents of health care will lie to you about health care killing Baby Twig. Anybody else see a problem there?

That isn't a binary.  It's a necessary for untruth.  Either they are being lied to (an idea most are being sympathetic to) or we are lying about the other lies.  That isn't an either/or. It's an and, a conjunction.  So fight that.  We have facts, and they have fear.  Our facts mean nothing if the dual effort from the opposition is to make them fear our facts, and we let that stand.  Promote the facts.  Accept and promote that we are on the side of the Constitution.  Don't give up the game before it's even played.


The game is over ... (0.00 / 0)
It was being played while you were pondering game theory.  

[ Parent ]
Keep telling yourself that ... N/T (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Someone needs to tell you ... (0.00 / 0)
Convoluted nonsense does not become wisdom when asserted with great force.  

[ Parent ]
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