A Double Trojan Horse

Could be mere posturing ... (4.00 / 1)

He could be saying that to mislead the opposition. Coops are a very bad idea, and what the insurance companies have wanted from the beginning.

we're getting steadily closer to a good bill as we get a little closer to a chance of no bill at all.

Ah yes, under the steady guidance of people skilled in game theory, clever negotiators all, we have not, repeat, not! lost our fricking shirts in this game.

No sirree. Not at all. Keep repeating it, Matt. it sounds truer every time. We've really been served well by the Democrats. I'm so damned proud I could cry.  

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by: Mark t @ Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 23:13:18 PM UTC

Mark t, why do the liberal talking heads (0.00 / 0)

not see the game plan?  http://www.politico.com/news/s...

What's the strategy when Jon Stuart holds Bush in higher esteem?  The silver hairs, and they vote!, are pissed and making their displeasure known.  Now with Stuart ridiculing Obama, what direction will the youth go?

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 00:05:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My mistake! (0.00 / 0)

I meant Jon Stewart.

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 00:08:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Stewart's a comedian (0.00 / 0)

The "youth" get it. So did I when I watched him last night. Obviously you don't.

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by: JC @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 00:08:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC, someone forgot to tell (0.00 / 0)

Time and HuffPo...and the people who watch:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

================
Well, in a result that he will probably accept as downright apocalyptic for America, The Daily Show's Jon Stewart has been selected, in an online poll conducted by Time Magazine, as America's Most Trusted Newscaster, post-Cronkite.
=====================

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 00:12:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Proving yet again that it won't make you laugh if it isn't true. (0.00 / 0)

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by: Steve W. @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 00:48:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Online polls like that (0.00 / 0)

are worthless. They tell you what the people who were directed to the online poll thought. There is nothing scientific about them. Actually, I think it is interesting that Stewart fans read Time enough to go and vote for him. Maybe there is some hope for the younger gen.

Stewart, though, has a great knack for getting to the meat of an issue. But he, as all the media has been, has been played by Obama. Or, more likely, he is playing along because he can see the tactic for what it is. Somehow, I just can't believe that what appears to be message indiscipline can really be such with someone like Rahm Emmanuel cracking the whip. When you know you've got a problem you'll see Messina (aka "The Fixer") hustling behind the scenes.

Obama can't control what the media does with tea baggers. But he can leak out tactical bits of info--like all of the little tidbits signaling a "test-the-waters" form of media propaganda.

And of course, the media laps it up, because what they really want to report on is the death of the public option.

So what better way for Obama to get some pullback from the progressive wing? Throw some bait out to the media, and let them run with it. Then the left responds monday with a huge outpouring of pushback against those who want to kill the PO. And a far greater outpouring than anything a corporate funded tea party could do. And you're going to see a whole lot more of it in the coming weeks, as OFA has a far greater organizing ability than FreedomWorks, and the other rightwing astroturfers.

Ebb and flow. You just get caught swimming cross current Craig. You miss what's really going on. Widen them blinders. Rise up above your preconceptions, and you might really see what's going on.

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by: JC @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:13:39 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC, Ya Sure, Ya Betcha! (0.00 / 0)

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:22:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Or you might see Russia (0.00 / 0)

from your front porch...

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by: JC @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:55:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

That was a funny skit (0.00 / 0)

and it made me laugh.  I love your argument, "Yeah...but, but Palin!"

However, I don't think the advice from the Washington Post is as funny.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

==============
It's Time to Give Up On the Public Option

By Steven Pearlstein
Wednesday, August 19, 2009

Enough already with the public option!

t is not the be-all and end-all of health-care reform. It is not the long-awaited safety net for the uninsured. And if, as many liberals hope, it turns out to be nothing more than Medicare for All, it won't do anything to hold down long-term growth in health spending.

The public option is nothing more than a political litmus test imposed on the debate by left-wing politicians and pundits who don't want to be bothered with the real-life dynamics of the health-care market. It is the Maginot Line of health-care policy, and just like those stubborn French generals, liberal Democrats have vowed to defend it even if it means losing the war.
================================

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 02:01:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

CNN is reporting that the Dems are going it alone and telling the Party of No to take a hike! Good (0.00 / 0)

It's about time.

The Repos lost the last two elections and now that they have admitted to bargaining in bad faith, they have lost any right to have any input on the health care overhaul. Watch the tear drops and the whining began! It should be a sight to see, grown white men (and a couple of white women) throwing temper tantrums. The Party of No gets told, "No Dice, snake eyes!"

Whether this will lead to good public policy or not is now firmly in the Dem's court. It should be interesting to watch this unfold and critical for everyone who wants good public policy to get involved. At this point the liberal grassroots are stronger than we've been since the day before the 08 election.

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by: Steve W. @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 03:25:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Amazing (0.00 / 0)

This is likely the first time that you and I unequivocally agree.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 21:20:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You invoked her (0.00 / 0)

with your "Ya Betcha"...

But when Pearlstein says the following:

The public option is nothing more than a political litmus test imposed on the debate by left-wing politicians and pundits who don't want to be bothered with the real-life dynamics of the health-care market.

He reveals a grave misunderstanding of both health care policy, and the politics surrounding it. He should retreat to his economist digs and keep writing about something he knows something about.

And this quote tells me who his real supporters are:

To bring down drug prices, Medicare could cap what it is willing to pay for any drug at 150 percent of the average price paid by other industrialized countries,

We should pay 50% more than other industrialized worlds for drugs? Why the f*ck should we do that? So PhRMA can grease it's LearJet wheel bearings with good old American blood?

The guy is whack on this one.

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by: JC @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 03:45:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Silver hairs are pissed? (0.00 / 0)

Not the ones I know...unless you mean pissed with the Democrats for not pushing harder on a good public option...

Pissed off seniors? What is that today's Republican "talking point"? Totally fabricated fiction...

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by: bigsage @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 02:53:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sage, Politico is the source (0.00 / 0)

http://www.politico.com/news/s...

===============
Democrats have a senior citizen problem.

Frustrated older Americans are packing the town halls on health care. They are incredibly passionate about their Medicare benefits. Polls show senior citizens largely disapprove of health care reform ideas so far.

And of course, they vote - in larger numbers than any other demographic.
=====================

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 04:09:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah, (0.00 / 0)

senior citizens don't want their Medicare taken over by the government...

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by: JC @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 04:17:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC -- For 10,000,000 silver hairs (0.00 / 0)

Medicare Advantage is the face of Medicare to them.  Obama is threatening THEIR Medicare.  Read the Politico article.  

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 04:27:27 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

So, you're one of those (0.00 / 0)

that wants to cut costs by not cutting costs. Uh huh.

Medicare advantage is a huge giveaway to private insurers. It's a slop trough of profit.

So if you can't cut Advantage, where else do you directly reign in Medicare costs at that level? Tort reform? Privatize the system?

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by: JC @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 07:08:33 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC, that was disingenuous, (0.00 / 0)

inartful, and clumsy.

Politico points to townhalls filled with upset silver hairs.  One of Politico's observed reasons is Obama's threat to Medicare Advantage, THEIR Medicare.  I suggest you take your rebuke and explain it to those 10,000,000 seniors.  They vote!

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 13:31:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

more advice from the jake eaton sound machine (0.00 / 0)

turn off the noise craig. your motives are well known here.

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by: problembear @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 15:44:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sleazybear, (0.00 / 0)

what no skinhead smear today?  YOUR personalizing almost every discussion as if you can seance who others are and what motives they have is merely a tactic to disguise your lack of substantive argument.

Sleazybear, if my participation is an inconvenient distraction from your ravings and Jay and Matt, the blog owners, share your opinion about noise and motives, I will willingly stop commenting here.  It is not my intention to subvert LiTW's purposes.  I am merely a guest and they are the hosts.

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by: Craig Moore @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 16:27:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Jesus, Matt... (0.00 / 0)

when are you going to realize that these guys want to kill health care reform..dead..dead...dead...stomped into the ground...and teach progressives a lesson while they are at it?

You can not compromise, you can not seek bipartisanship, with these guys...every little concession is a crack for them to wiggle into...

When Baucus and Obama opened the discussion back in March with the "public option" and NOT single payer, the corporate elite must have rubbed their hands in glee...

You are dreaming if you think the Democrats have the Republicans and the corporate elite playing into their hands...Christ, Obama and Baucus are being played like a fiddle...the anti-reformers had next to zero chance of stopping health care reform back in November and look how far they have come...one by one anything good about reform has disappeared from the table.. I said this a month ago...there will be no bill...none. And I can guarantee you the Repubs. will blame the Democrats for the failure to reform and any majority we might have had in Congress will be gone...and trust me...An Obama Presidency with a Republican led Congress will not be a pretty sight.

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by: bigsage @ Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 23:41:08 PM UTC

Crap Matt (0.00 / 0)

You make me just want to go drinking.  Vodka.  Shaken and strained.  Perhaps a splash of Rose's just to make it easier to gulp.

Didn't you just come back from vacation?  Aren't you supposed to be all happy and optimistic?

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by: jhwygirl @ Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 23:57:59 PM UTC

Matt, I've finally figured out why I started to disagree with you (0.00 / 0)

so vehemently in the last year or so as to where our energy should go.  Howard Zinn said "We who protest the war are not politicians.  We are citizens.  Whatever politicians may do, let them first feel the full force of citizens who speak for what is right, not for what is winnable...Except for the rare few, our representatives are politicians, and will surrender their integrity, claiming to be 'realistic.' We are not politicians, but citizens.  We have no office to hold on to, only our consciences, which insist on telling the truth.  That, history suggests, is the most realistic thing a citizen can do."

Garret Keizer wrote a brilliant essay for Harper's that had a profound effect on solidifying my thinking about politics.  It's called "Crapshoot; Everybody loses when politics is a game". You have to be a subscriber to read Harper's on line, but sometimes you can find it by clever googling.  The Scribe has a synopsis at  http://prairieweather.typepad....

Life should not be seen as game where you are a player or you are a serf. The player thinks he can escape work somehow.  A player sees life as a game and in his leisure time he "works" out or "works on his golf game" or "works on his relationship" while "business is a game."  But life is always work and workers can tell the difference between work and leisure/play. And they honor work.  They don't denigrate it.

What we have seen with the takeover of government and our economy by the financial sector and little masters of the universe is a relentless restless player dominated life.  And that's not healthy. And it's not smart.  We have let deal makers like Emmanuel and other henchmen substitute for statesmen and women.  We have abdicated our roles as citizens and we must step up to the plate again and do what is right and not what is winnable. And we must return honor to work.

The Mad as Hell Docs will be coming through Missoula and Helena on September 10 on their way from Portland to Washington, D.C.  Join this cause.  They say that the "public option is a trap".  

We are at a crossroad. Kiss Ass or Kick Butt.  

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by: Feral Cat @ Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 16:16:06 PM UTC