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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Out-of-State Extremists Coming Our Way - Along with One Out-of-Touch Democratic State Senator

by: Montana Cowgirl

Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 16:33:26 PM MST


As if the striking defeat of abortion bans in South Dakota and Colorado last year (and the failure of a ban in Montana to even get on the ballot) weren't clear enough, out-of-state zealots are headed for Montana this week for what they call a "Personhood Conference." (This thing is sure to be a fascinating bunch of out-of-state total extremists--reporters won't want to miss it.)

Why us? National groups are focusing their attention on the states because Congress wants no part of something this extreme. They are coming to Montana because our low population and cheap media rates make us the perfect target to force their extremist experiment on the nation without spending a lot of money.  Also, we actually elected a member of the Constitution party to our state legislature who backed previous failed bans.

The thing is, they don't have local support - the Montana Right to Life, Montana Catholic Conference, and the Montana Family Foundation have all said in the press that they want no part of this.

Even Republicans are starting to come out against these efforts to force their big government extremist agenda on the rest of us though state ballot initiatives.

Women in Montana (and especially Native women) don't want to give the government control over whether and when we have children. In addition to the out-of-staters, it will be interesting to see if any local officials actually show up.  The personhood conference website touts Senator Jonathan Windy Boy (D-Box Elder) as supposedly attending.

Why would Windy Boy attend?  He may be confused.  When asked what the reason is for his anti-abortion rights votes in the legislature Windy Boy has said "my uncle had 23 children and he told me to go forth and multiply."

I love kids as much as the next gal. However, 23 kids! That's five more kids than the Duggars.  What if each of those kids all had 23 kids, how much is 23 x 23? 529 I think. And 529 x23 = 12, 167. In just three generations this family could be 12,000 strong. Two hundred eighty thousand strong in four generations.

The conference website lists Senator Windy Boy's phone number--give him a call and tell him that if he's against abortion, he should vote to increase access to affordable birth control and medically accurate sex education in his district to prevent unintended pregnancy in the first place instead of aligning himself with wing-nuts.  

Montana Cowgirl :: Out-of-State Extremists Coming Our Way - Along with One Out-of-Touch Democratic State Senator
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I think I knew his unlce, (0.00 / 0)
Jonathon Horny Boy!

They come to Montana because Montana is STILL the wetdream of their white, chriteeyan fundiwackmentalist homeland!  Also, this is where ol' jonathon martin lives.  Ol' jonny martin is as WACKO as they come.  He co-founded the Constitstupid party, and is always out in front of Planned Parenthood here GF with his pictures.  I have known jonny for a looong time.  He is one very strange dude!  Or more accurately one very sick dude.


I forgot about Jonathan Martin! (0.00 / 0)
But thanks for reminding me about this Great Falls nut.

[ Parent ]
He's not confused.. (0.00 / 0)
He's not confused..he signed on to that wing-nut from Havre's (Warburton?)ban everything anti-abortion bill at the start of the last legislature.  

OMG - That is a problem. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but... (0.00 / 0)
Looks like he doesn't deserve it.  Thanks so much for the update!

[ Parent ]
You should give him a call... (0.00 / 0)
and ask him how his faith comes into play regarding this issue.

Incorporating faith as law... (0.00 / 0)
...is a sure recipe for the end of religious freedom...

[ Parent ]
Could one of the admins (0.00 / 0)
please contact me regarding why my posts are being deleted?

I've tried contacting some at their emails and have no luck with responses.

If you don't like what I'm posting you can respond instead of taking it down.  If what I'm writing is really so off base it should be evident to the reader, and not need censorship by all you "open minded" individuals.  

Also, if no one would like to explain (as has been the case so far), could I please contact someone who will remove my contact information from your database?  I don't like the idea of having to register personal information with a website that has no accountability to the concerns of its members.

Thanks.


The admins aren't deleting you, T (0.00 / 0)
This website has comment voting, and if a comment is rated below 1, than it disappears.  If a comment above one you have left in a thread is rated below 1 than all comments threaded below it disappear, including yours.

It isn't the admins who are deleting your comments, T.  It's the community that reads this website.  You do understand community, don't you?

All of this has been explained several times in several ways, both in comments and in posts.  An astute reader such as yourself would have seen that, right?


[ Parent ]
well.... maybe you can point to somewhere that says this... (0.00 / 0)
I assumed the 0 votes were for actual troll posts, not just because you didn't like what was said or disagreed.

And according to the people giving the "O" votes, they are all admins as far as I can see, so it is the admins who are doing the deletions by giving "0" votes to posts they just don't like, instead of a 1.  

2nd, I've sent out multiple emails and got no reply, so I'm concerned about that as well.  I think sites that require personal information to post should be accountable to the concerns of their members.

I agree with Mark.  If you merely disagree with something, don't rate it a zero.  You really should learn some semblance of adult discussion, instead of just finding ways to get rid of ideas you don't like instead of engaging them.  


it's public record, maybe Jay Stevens or JC could comment (0.00 / 0)
as to why they rate posts they disagree with as "0"?

Considering they are admins at this site with posting privileges, I would assume both of them can

a)see there is a difference between a 1 and 0 since it causes posts to be deleted.

and

b)want to encourage dialogue or rebuke points people are making against their posts.  it seems very low to be deleting everyone who disagrees with their posting instead of responding.  is that the sort of site this is?  i'm not surprised that liberals like to censor all ideas but their own, but don't try to justify it by hiding behind some sort of rating system.  merely acknowledge there are more of you and that you prefer no one disagree with what you write, by force if necessary.

do all the people who ever disagree have to start giving each other 4 ratings before the admins get to their comments so they have some chance of surviving?  what sort of liberal fascist little blog do you have going here?  again, no emails have been answered regarding this.  please respond.


[ Parent ]
~sigh~ (0.00 / 0)
I assumed the 0 votes were for actual troll posts, not just because you didn't like what was said or disagreed.

First things first, a "post" is what a blogger does.  What you leave are comments.  Do try and get that straight.

Second, I've troll rated some of your comments because they were worthy of being troll rated.  I don't think you're objective on this point.

And according to the people giving the "O" votes, they are all admins as far as I can see,

Then you must be blind.  In your followup comment you task JC. He is not an admin here.  Neither am I. You are simply whining about being wrong.

2nd, I've sent out multiple emails and got no reply, so I'm concerned about that as well.

Yes.  I'm certain that they're draining your bank accounts as we speak.

I think sites that require personal information to post should be accountable to the concerns of their members.

Learn to Internets, numbnuts.  Some people here have registered with emails set up for no reason other than that they could comment here.  That you didn't do that gives you no special rights whatsoever.  You're just too much a doof to get the venue.  What you think is of no consequence whatsoever.  The rules were known to you when you registered.  If you can't take personal responsibility for your actions here, then you really are a sucker, aren't you?

I agree with Mark.

That's usually a mistake.

If you merely disagree with something, don't rate it a zero.

Many of us follow that dictate.  It won't stop whiners like you from bitching when your spew gos bye-bye.  But it really should be a good rule of thumb.

You really should learn some semblance of adult discussion, instead of just finding ways to get rid of ideas you don't like instead of engaging them.  

The responsibility is yours.  Don't troll and don't follow trolls.  Then your comments won't get deleted.  Isn't that simple?


[ Parent ]
Sorry for the delay in responding... (2.50 / 2)
...but I have two jobs and a family, and there are times when I am away from my computer.

I did respond to your email, and I'll share the response here with the community:

"Comments are deleted when enough LiTW troll-rate them. Typically the community has little tolerance for insults; racist, sexist, or homophobic language; comments intended to cause reaction rather than add to debate; and the like. If your comments have been deleted, it's because they've fallen under one of these categories. Being a progressive blog and a progressive blog community, I suspect readers have less tolerance of a conservative acting out, although it's hardly ideological: there are several trollish lefties who find their comments often deleted.

"Remember, you are a guest at the site, and a certain civility is required to participate in discussions. If you need guidance on how to disagree in a constructive manner, check out JC's comments: he's the master."

To be honest, the comments here have gotten out of hand. Too often incivility rules. I know for a fact that the tenor of the comments have chased away readers from the site, and certainly have discouraged many from commenting.

Far from being a kind of "censorship," monitoring and deleting comments actually promotes speech and the exchange of ideas. On the other hand, trollish, insulting rhetoric drives people away and is a kind of censorship, but by the mob, not by the blogger.

Changes are coming to the site, which will include a more clearly defined comment policy and a more active role from those of us running the site in monitoring and deleting comments and commenter profiles.

Carry on.


[ Parent ]
jay (0.00 / 0)
you say the comments have gotten out of hand, but you can't cite specific examples?  in fact the comment in question had really nothing questionable, mean spirited, etc in it.

it provided a link to a biography of the man you were encouraging your readers to call personally.  

i'm glad you took time from your kids and job.  but something tells me if you took as much time evaluating some sort of objective policy regarding discussion here as you do just rating "0" to all posts you disagree with, you wouldn't have to take the time in the first place.

but let me ask you, why do you feel the need to regulate at all?  personally i'd err on the side of an open discussion, and if some comments and ideas are really so heinous, wouldn't that be evident to those who read them?  do we really need thought police here as well?  shouldn't you have some sort of regard for the first amendment?  i realize this is someone's personal blog, but if you're going to be the net nannies, don't pretend you aren't going to face scrutiny of regulating anyone who disagrees with  you out of existence.  

as for the rating system.  it currently only requires 2 ratings?  so 2 against 1 admins don't like what people say to their posts and it's gone?  this seems really arbitrary and very personal and nit picky for a blog without that many people reading it to begin with.  


[ Parent ]
also... (0.00 / 0)
can i asssume any private correspondence i send to people on this site will later be posted for public online viewing?

[ Parent ]
Yes (0.00 / 0)
As well as all your online information which I'm currently using on eBay ...

[ Parent ]
I'm glad... (0.00 / 0)
you think this is funny.  I'm concerned about personal information and correspondence being broadcast to the world, and you make jokes and call me numbnuts.  

But I'M the one who needs their posts deleted.... Right.


[ Parent ]
Maybe (0.00 / 0)
Just maybe, the folk around here are more moral than you accuse them of being.  Have you possibly considered that?

[ Parent ]
If the community thinks I'm wrong ... (0.00 / 0)
They'll delete it.  I don't care either way, but you sure do.

Perhaps you just need a nice hot toddy ...


[ Parent ]
"private correspondence" (0.00 / 0)
Tad, you wrote here about the correspondence, your questions, and I thought you were interested in sharing the thoughts with the readers, so I thought it appropriate I let everyone know my answer. I did not, and can't imagine I ever would, share what you wrote in an email to me without your permission.

[ Parent ]
WTF? (0.00 / 0)
you say the comments have gotten out of hand, but you can't cite specific examples?

Why should he have to?  He's an admin, kitten.

personally i'd err on the side of an open discussion, and if some comments and ideas are really so heinous, wouldn't that be evident to those who read them?

GYOBFW


[ Parent ]
ah... (0.00 / 0)
if you are an "admin" you don't have to defend or explain your actions?  

gee, more internet acronyms instead of actual thought.  you must be a smash at parties.


[ Parent ]
Hehe (0.00 / 0)
I can't help it if you aren't familiar with all Internet traditions, dude.

;-)


[ Parent ]
Here's a Crazy Idea (4.00 / 1)
It's something I learned very early on in this blogging thing.

If you think someone is "trolling," ie, posting something just to get a rise out of you - don't respond to it.  This is particularly evident with you, Wulfgar - when you take on someone you conisider to be a troll, it clearly, clearly, clearly just makes matters worse.  I understand the need to react on your part, but if it doesn't accomplish anything, why bother?

I'm not defending comments that are trolling, but for God's sake, there wouldn't be so much useless tit for tat here if we just got rid of the tat.  It'd be one useless comment followed by silence.

How hard is that?


Looking back (0.00 / 0)
at the about 50 posts I've had on this site, all but 2 of them have been rated a ZERO.  

The other 2 times I was given a 1.  

And all of the 50 or so ratings were done by Wulgfar, JC or Jay Stevens.

So do you guys actively seek to put zeros on everything you don't like, or did you know that you were censoring things you disagreed with?


Comment rating is weak sauce (3.00 / 2)
If you want this to be a DemocratUnderground-MT/PA division, then lock it down and only allow Lefty's to comment.

The comment rating system seems to have nothing to do with the actual content of the comment.  I totally agree with shutting down personal attacks, racism, sexism, etc, but to "troll/unproductive"-rate a comment simply because you disagree is beyond stupid.

It's almost as if it's a sort of "yeah, that's a good quality comment that helps force this issue", and that's bullshit.

It's your blog, and you're gonna run it how you want, but you gotta inject a little intellectual honesty and stop touting the moniker of "Montana Politics" if only those on the Left/Far Left of the aisle are allowed into the conversation.

Over/Under on how long before this post gets troll-rated and removed?  My money's on 45min.

Exit question:  What's the difference between a "troll" comment and an "unproductive" comment?


Irony (0.00 / 0)
The comment rating system seems to have nothing to do with the actual content of the comment.  I totally agree with shutting down personal attacks, racism, sexism, etc, but to "troll/unproductive"-rate a comment simply because you disagree is beyond stupid.

That's an opinion that may add to discourse.

It's your blog, and you're gonna run it how you want, but you gotta inject a little intellectual honesty and stop touting the moniker of "Montana Politics" if only those on the Left/Far Left of the aisle are allowed into the conversation.

That's unproductively demanding that the website be what you want it to be.

Over/Under on how long before this post gets troll-rated and removed?  My money's on 45min.

That's trolling.  Are you starting to see the difference there, Rusted?

[ Parent ]
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