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Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
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If You Haven't Seen This
by: Rob Kailey - Apr 28
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Impeach the President?
by: Rob Kailey - Mar 16
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It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Stumbling toward the future

by: Jay Stevens

Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 11:56:28 AM MST


Before the Rethink 08 discussion kicks off, I thought I'd kick in my own two cents on the topic. And I'll start with a quote from Markos Moulitsas:

A look at key Democratic constituencies shows how demoralized the party's base currently is. Among African-Americans, just 34 percent are likely to vote, versus 54 percent unlikely to do so. Republican-leaning white voters clocked in at 66-29. Only 41 percent of 18- to 29-year-olds, a key constituency for Democrats in both 2006 and 2008, are likely to vote, compared to 49 percent likely to sit things out.

If these numbers hold for the next year, it won't matter what those generic congressional ballot questions say, nor will it matter whether Democrats can increase their performance with independent voters. If base Democratic voters don't turn out, like what happened in New Jersey and Virginia this year, Democrats will suffer at the ballot box.

Moulitsas attributes the drop in the base's enthusiasm to the moribund policies of Democrats, the endless wrangling in Congress over a less-than-stellar healthcare reform bill, the Afghan escalation, etc & co.  I think he's right on - up to a point. Let's face it: the majority of voters have only a passing familiarity, say, with the details of healthcare reform, and it's likely most support the president's decision about increasing troop levels in Afghanistan. Nor is the administration's foot-dragging on DOMA or DADT probably even familiar to most of the electorate. In short, I don't think it's policy alone that's dampened Democratic voters.

To understand the current mood of Democrat-voting citizens, I think you have to go back to Obama's campaign and its rhetoric. It was bold, and hopeful. A campaign for change! And while the hope and change were worded in vague terms to allow voters to project their own values onto the campaign, the overriding sense was that Obama's election would usher in a new post-partisan government, with mature, reasonable men and women working soberly to solve the country's most pressing problems: climate change, Iraq, the economy. We were - are - in a time of crisis, and Obama's election was meant to be a signal for maturity and action.

Obviously that hasn't happened.

I don't think voters necessarily blame the president. He still has high approval ratings, given the low scores voters give to, say, the direction the country's moving in, or the attitude towards healthcare reform. Instead, I think many Obama supporters look at DC, hear the rabid Beck-ian insanity on the lips of Republicans, see the gridlock in Congress and the paucity of legislation, and grow discouraged. We worked our *sses off to elect Obama and usher in a new era of politics - and nothing happened. Nothing's happening.

Not that Obama has helped much. It's easy to forget after the bold proclamations of the campaign season and the magnificence of the campaign itself in the way it was organized and run that Obama is essentially a legislator. Instead of a bold push for a legislative slate from the White House, we see the president hand over critical reform to Congress, letting Congressional committees draft tepid, overly compromised bills. Where's the Green New Deal? What happened to single-payer healthcare?

Now, I'm not saying this wasn't the best way to get something done, that it isn't realistic or pragmatic. But it's also discouraging, ineffective reform. The president - and a lot of Democrats - seem completely unaware they can drive the media narrative, not just react to it with paranoia and skittish, scuttling side-steps to the right. The Bush administration got it. They were an inept, amoral, egoistical bunch whose policies were national disasters, but they understood how to control the narrative and push through an ambitious agenda. Why can't the president do that - but with good policies and ideas? Answer: he's a legislator, as is his CoS, Emmanuel. They think in terms of intra-legislative compromises and negotiations, of committeework and votes.

But we want to be inspired. We want to work for tangible and beautiful goals.

Jay Stevens :: Stumbling toward the future
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Realistic and Pragmatic (0.00 / 0)
"Realistic and pragmatic" come loaded with limits and boundaries that "youth" instinctively resist.

"Messina offered no explanations why the passion subsided so rapidly." Not surprising when we consider his role in maintaining ruling class control over a population trained to believe it participates in a democracy. This training has two parts; on the one hand drilling in the notion that "democracy" only applies to the political sphere and not the economic, and on the other, reproducing the belief that "politics" consists of voting every-so-often for a "representative". These well meaning grad seminar students are perplexed about peoples apathy. "They do have an opinion, they do care. The weird thing is it doesn't translate to people doing stuff." It's time these innocent students understood the role of ideology in reproducing class power and the role of the state in mediating that power. Armed with this understanding they would recognize that Jim Messina is steeped in "Americanism", that powerful but strange ideology which is "detached and partially hidden" and which in a bi-partisan manner denies it's own existence. He is a high ranking member of "political society" and knows perfectly well how it is infiltrated by the ruling class and exactly where the revolving door to the business elite is.

The point is, Obama's and Messina's "Change We Can Believe In" has nothing to do with power. The "mass movements" this form of change advocates is all about Twitter feeds or Facebook pages, joining non-profits and paying monthly dues so you can get a newsletter which tells you to call your Congressperson. It is online donations to MoveOn.Org and filling out surveys. The young journalism students are "disappointed in the Democratic Party" because they fail to understand that it's role is to keep people from demanding change and that working within it's structure is the opposite of taking risk and using direct action, be it in the workplace or on the streets. Power rests in the mass refusal to join and the mass refusal to absorb "Americanism" or any other form of Market ideology. So the question for the graduate seminar is, how much "enthusiasm" might there be for a General Strike which demanded single-payer health insurance, or CO2 reductions or an exit from Iraq and Afghanistan or an end to Israeli settlement building or coal mining or don't ask-don't tell? How much "political fire" might be generated if they abandoned the Democratic party and demanded workers take control of workplaces and banks be nationalized and higher education be free for everyone? More than they have ever considered possible, I'm sure!


OT: Howdy troutsky (0.00 / 0)
I wondered how long it would take for you to wander over here.  I'm glad you have.

[ Parent ]
I have to admit... (0.00 / 0)
...the moniker is awesome.

[ Parent ]
Stumbling toward the future (0.00 / 0)
What intrigues me about all this is something that relates to parts of troutsky's earlier comment:

The "mass movements" this form of change advocates is all about Twitter feeds or Facebook pages, joining non-profits and paying monthly dues so you can get a newsletter which tells you to call your Congressperson. It is online donations to MoveOn.Org and filling out surveys.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Facebook, Twitter, etc.. I'm still waiting to see whether these venues will, a la longue, replace "old" ways of participation, and in what way this change will unfold.

Can citizens have a real impact on policy decisions via Facebook, beyond donating money to a candidate that they then vote for, once every four or eight years?

How could it work? This really intrigues me.

I'm curious about it because my impression is -- and I'm basing this simply on talking to people a lot over the years -- that many if not most 18 to 29-year-olds are either bored with or super-cynical about the more traditional models of participation. Many of them care, but there seems no venue for them to engage effectively.

For full disclosure, let me say that I'm part of the Rethink08 project.


[ Parent ]
One hopes not, that (0.00 / 0)
"whether these venues will, a la longue, replace "old" ways of participation."

I would abhor that the old ways of participation would get funneled through one or two corporations controlled by single individuals. One just needs to look to today's letter from FB founder, Mark Zuckerberg splashed across the top of everyone's wall:

"We've worked hard to build controls that we think will be better for you, but we also understand that everyone's needs are different."

I don't need Zuckerberg thinking for me, or controlling how I communicate with others, or understanding my "needs." Facebook will always remain a niche social clique in my book, no matter how many people sign up to use it.

I'll build my own soapboxes, thank you very much, and haul them out to the curb, and thump my hard copy. Public participation and policy development does not need to be funneled through another corporate enterprise.


[ Parent ]
Are you serious? (0.00 / 0)
You want inspiration? How's this:

If McCain/Palin had won the 2008 election, the Great Recession would by now be well on its way to a second Great Depression.

As much as I dislike some of Obama's appointments and some of his actions to date, he inherited a bloody mess and has at least slowed if not stopped the bleeding. In less than a year in office.

Kos's whining and yours do you no credit. "Tangible and beautiful goals" be damned. The Democrats need to expose the Republicans for the foul breed that they are and do everything possible to crush them in the 2010 election. I had hoped that Emmanuel would knock some heads in Congress, but if he is he's been doing it very quietly.

Any liberal/progressive who doesn't support Obama or vote for virtually any Democrat is no better than any stinking Republican. You and Kos would do well to remember that.


independents don't take kindly to marching orders. (0.00 / 0)
and independents are the fastest growing political party in america right now, papa. you better come up with a much less arrogant tone if you hope to keep them voting for any of your candidates. blind obedience is for worms digging in tunnels who are content to eat shit.

that ain't me.


[ Parent ]
Simple fact (0.00 / 0)
Independents aren't a political party.  They are a voting block.  The game boils down to who can harness their votes, if anybody.  I think that was papa's angry point.

[ Parent ]
it is difficult to harness wild animals sic-independents wulfgar... (0.00 / 0)
but most of us respond poorly to arrogant orders.

the republicans are so far to the right that i do not see many independents leaning to the right. but the emergence of a third party candidate that attracts us would threaten to destroy the ambitions of either party. democrats who are disillusioned by the current congress and president who seem to be running interceptions back toward their opponent's goal line does not help matters any- especially with the new young voters who backed the current administration. my bet is that some very charismatic and ambitious progressive candidate will probably tap into this frustration in 2012. it could make things pretty interesting.

call us what you will, at the rate that both parties are going in driving off followers- the right wing party which has devoured the once proud GOP is making many republicans uncomfortable by their insane rhetoric and the democrats have so far, been pretty ineffective in driving an agenda that anyone can believe in despite the political power we handed them in 2008. all this boils down to a huge opening for someone who can recharge the republicans who are moderate on social issues but who mistrust the democratic party and the progressives who are tired of corruption running politics in washington.


[ Parent ]
think (0.00 / 0)
My tone was pretty moderate I thought. The issue I'm trying to point out is that any thinking person cannot, by definition, vote Republican. It's not possible. I'm not calling for blind obedience, just rational thought.

As for a third party candidate, I'm all for it, as long as it's someone like Ross Perot or Ron Paul. Those guys siphon off Republican votes. Good, the more the better. Any so-called independent who votes for some nitwit like one of these is not an independent at all. He/she is a Republican in chicken feathers.

As for independents voting for someone like Ralph Nader--well, that worked out well in 2000 didn't it.


[ Parent ]
2012 is not 2000......... (0.00 / 0)
 democratic failure to fulfill the agenda that people elected them to do (if it is not reversed quickly) can not help but open the door in 2012 to a young candidate far more prescient and inspiring to upset the out-dated preconceived notions of a lot of political insiders in washington.

you think?

who are you anyway? aretha franklin. next you'll be telling us independents to r-e-s-p-e-c-t failure.


[ Parent ]
that's a good one (0.00 / 0)
I've never been mistaken for Aretha Franklin before, but I'll be on my guard from now on.

My point is that independents are not nearly as independent as they think. If "Prescient and inspiring" is what you want, get a dog. If you want policy change in the good ole USA, think about what you can do to pass a health care reform package and a jobs stimulus package.  


[ Parent ]
that baucus barge has sailed and sunk already (0.00 / 0)
but jobs stimulus bill with a one time 90% tax on overpaid CEO's incomes to pay for it and you can count me in....

[ Parent ]
Papa has a point. (0.00 / 0)
Many of the young folks I dealt with in '06 and '08 seemed to see the election with a mythology of good versus evil.  A sporting competition, maybe.  Evil had declared itself and made itself very well known.  I truly wonder how much of the polling apathy we're seeing right now is because the game's over and the good guys won ... for now.  The point is, if the enthusiasm wasn't so much policy driven then, why should we suddenly expect it to be now?

This kinda hooks to your point, Jay.  Enthusiasm is very image driven, especially with the young.  They aren't stupid, or nearly as uninformed as many in the media would have us believe, but they still have a need to belong that is innate in youth, and slows to a dull simmer come advancing years.  It isn't that Democrats aren't accomplishing what people want; it's that they're allowing themselves to be pushed around by the bad guys.  That's the media narrative and they're sticking to it.

Papa's point offers hope and a whole lot of foreboding.  In 'elections as game', played as we historically do, there are only three choices.  Choose A, choose B or choose not to choose.  Right now there's little reason to do anything other than the last, because the only one's asking are pollsters.  I don;t believe what most people think is represented by polls, but rather what they feel.  And right now, the game feels like it's in intermission.  So no, folks aren't happy with the image coming from Democrats, they don't feel like they belong in that camp and they're going to express that. But I caution that may mean nothing once it's 'game on' again.  


Stumbling ? (0.00 / 0)

The Democrats are not just stumbling Jay, to my delight they are in complete disarray.

They're divided over the health care issue -

They're divided over The Great Leaders handling of the war in Iraq / Afghanistan -

The militant gays who supported Obama are upset because he's done nothing for them - Don't ask / Don't tell is still the rule, and his administration supports DOMA -

Obama didn't end income tax for seniors making less than 50k (even though he promised to do so) - torqued off that group -

Obama isn't negotiating health care reform on C-Span (as promised) - instead he's having his minions do it in the dead of night behind closed doors - and the last honest poll I saw said that 70% of Americans don't like the current proposals -

Obama hasn't cracked down on lobbyists (as promised) -

Obama criticized the Bush Administration for reckless spending, but in his first year he added a decimal point to the national debt -

Obama told us that if we didn't pass the stimulus (spending) bill that unemployment would go over 8%, and that 9% would be disastrous - well he gave the money away and unemployment is over 10% -

And to top it off, for controlling the White House, and both houses of Congress President Obama has been very innefective -

The way the Dems are screwing up surprises even me - the political pendulum is already headed back to the right -



Wouldn't it be nice for you to make sense sometimes? (0.00 / 0)
The Democrats are not just stumbling Jay, to my delight they are in complete disarray.

What, you think they planned to be in disarray? Doesn't stumbling, as an action mean that you are in disarray?  Do you think through anything before you post, Eric?

Division, the state of being divided, doesn't mean what you clearly think it does.

They're divided over the health care issue -

On the contrary.  They are divided about how to reform health care, but not about the necessity for doing so.

They're divided over The Great Leaders handling of the war in Iraq / Afghanistan -

True, but unlike Republicants, the vast majority of Democrats still accept that he is the CIC.

The militant gays who supported Obama are upset because he's done nothing for them - Don't ask / Don't tell is still the rule, and his administration supports DOMA -

"Militant".  Love that word.  What percentage are we talking here, kitten?  And why do you have no sense of time?

Obama didn't end income tax for seniors making less than 50k (even though he promised to do so) - torqued off that group -

He promised no such thing.  Now you're just repeating LimpDick's lies.  And, the President doesn't have the power to Tax.  Congress does.  You might want to embrace that simple truth someday.

Obama isn't negotiating health care reform on C-Span (as promised) - instead he's having his minions do it in the dead of night behind closed doors - and the last honest poll I saw said that 70% of Americans don't like the current proposals -

The President doesn't legislate.  See the above, idiot.

Obama hasn't cracked down on lobbyists (as promised) -

Actually, he has.  But what exactly do you think he promised?

Obama criticized the Bush Administration for reckless spending, but in his first year he added a decimal point to the national debt -

I guess you don't understand the word "reckless" do you, Eric?  Hardly surprising considering that you don't seem to have any good grasp of English at all.  Two other things.  1) The budget for the year Obama has been in office was set last year.  2)  Adding a "decimal point" to the deficit means he's added pennies, moron.

Obama told us that if we didn't pass the stimulus (spending) bill that unemployment would go over 8%, and that 9% would be disastrous - well he gave the money away and unemployment is over 10% -

You really expect that the President is a wizard, don't you?  And I'd like you to prognosticate:  if the stimulus hadn't been passed, what would unemployment be? And just for the record, Eric, "we" had jack all to do with the passing of a bill.  Remember that whole separation of powers dealio and the fact that we have a Representative Congress?

You hate Obama.  We get this.  How could we not?  but blaming him for being "innefective" (a truly ugly misspelling) while touting the failings of Congress is pretty idiotic, wouldn't you agree?

Palin/Bachman in 2012!


[ Parent ]
eric. this we win if you lose crap has got to stop. people are sick of it. (4.00 / 1)
and while democrats seem to be unable to move the ball (not because of opposition- because they keep running into each other at the line of scrimmage) it would be premature to say that all is well in far right land. yes, you folks do seem to be more united than democrats- all 15% of you....

too many people are still smarting from the sheer idiocy of the bush/cheney years to actually entertain the notion of voting for a far right candidate. no. i think a third candidate will emerge by 2012 that will challenge both parties and if not win at least tilt the political landscape toward more accountability to the average tax-paying hard-working citizen who is tired of the rhetoric of both sides. partisan politics and corrupt politicians are strangling the life out of this country.

right now, the mood of the people is what i would call unsettled. in a few years, they will be angered beyond the ability to mollify them with mere words. no one trusts either party anymore. the smart folks who find a way to tap into this "unsettled feeling" and the growing anger of people tired of blind partisanship will succeed at the very least in making government more accountable to regular folks in this country who are growing increasingly impatient with both parties.



people are sick of it ? (0.00 / 0)

Of what?

The Democrats at civil war with each other?

The Democrats inability to legislate, even though they've ran Washington for what, 3 years now?


[ Parent ]
no eric.... (0.00 / 0)
as was painfully obvious to anyone here, i was referring to the far right's avowed resolve to do anything it can to make sure america fails....your presence at this blog is simply to drive any wedge you can into any crack that you imagine is going to allow you to restore bush/cheney the sequel back in power. it isn't gonna happen. people are dumb alright but not that dumb. until the republican party returns to its senses and starts to act like they live on planet earth again you are doomed to wander the blogs in search of some way to convince the majority of people in this country that restoring to power a party that genuflects at the altar of rush limbaugh and kisses the outstretched multi-diamond-ringed hands of the top 5% of the wealthy aristocrats you are dreaming your life away.....yes, we differ with each other. doesn't mean we are buying the hatred, selfishness, and unreasoning greed that you are proffering.....

go sell crazy somewhere else....we manufacture it here to better specifications. yours is poor grade and i wouldn't be caught dead wearing it. kind of an embarrassing brand right now.  


[ Parent ]
The polls disagree with you problembear - (0.00 / 0)

The Dems are sinking faster than the car companies -

http://www.rasmussenreports.co...


[ Parent ]
both parties are in decline PR wise eric....especially to young voters (0.00 / 0)
due to misbehavior, misdirection and the fact that the primary objective of the leaders of either party continue to be the dominance of one party over the other, rather than the good of the country.

both parties have lost their way and seem to be chained to each other as they both slide inexorably into hell....

young voters and the disenfranchised of the two party system will be in a prime mood for a socially progressive and fiscally moderate third party candidate (independent?) who can offer them a reasonable alternative.

your pathetic polls showing the decline of both parties are obvious to anyone who talks to regular folks on a daily basis. the mood is getting pretty ugly out here, which is  fertile ground for some kind of political tilt away from partisan politics in 2012.  


[ Parent ]
Exactly (0.00 / 0)
Papa knows Obama "inherited a bloody mess" but I think you might want too carry your history back more than eight years. The "mess" could be expanded trade policy, development "aid", the world wide appropriation of resources and something called blow back.

The "unsettled feeling" will make government "accountable"? Really.It is a capitalist state protecting its prime constituents in bi-partisan fashion.For instance , neither party was willing to see the profit-motive or the hand of the market questioned in the health-care "debate". Such discourse is off limits,taboo, beyond the boundary. Obama and you progressives and you conservatives are allied over the foundational concept that competition is required to create an efficient health care system.You only bicker over details.

Conservatives have a real taste for the kool-aid but liberals/ progressives can see the dangers of all types of fundamentalism and actually still believe in democracy. It is the democratic revolution which we need to complete but capitalism thwarts that goal. Economic democracy found in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a very progressive notion.


i hate to nit-pick jay (0.00 / 0)
i do enjoy your posts quite a bit. i find them for the most part honest, intelligent and usually with a refreshing perspective that makes me occasionally think outside my very opinionated big brother bloviating box....that being said. the s in ...toward's.. in the headline just keeps throbbing at me like some mutant baboon's ass. i know it is crazy but could you possibly zap it for me. it drives me nuts.

holy cow! (0.00 / 0)
Wow! Thanks for pointing it out! I never realized "towards" is a bastardization of "toward" -- and here I am, editor, writer, proofreader, and sometime English instructor!

D*mn.


[ Parent ]
Gee, if pb gets to nit-pick, Jay, (0.00 / 0)
could I get you to add an "n" to unethusiastic? Sounds like you had a cold when you wrote that headline. It's been keeping me up at night. ;-)

And I always have said that a writer is his own worst editor and proofreader. But you still do a bang-up job here.


[ Parent ]
Gee, if pb gets to nit-pick, Jay, (0.00 / 0)
could I get you to add an "n" to unethusiastic? Sounds like you had a cold when you wrote that headline. It's been keeping me up at night. ;-)

And I always have said that a writer is his own worst editor and proofreader. But you still do a bang-up job here.


[ Parent ]
ugh! (0.00 / 0)
One of the problems is that I need new glasses...so I'm writing blind. And, yes, feel free to exploit that as a metaphor if you wish...

[ Parent ]
sorry- SS Baucus didn't sink - it just ran aground.... (0.00 / 0)
http://4and20blackbirds.wordpr...

and has anyone checked to see if old max has alzheimers lately?  acting kind of erratic lately....  http://amerpundit.com/2009/12/...

i just love the way the staff words their press release. does anyone else feel like they are treating us here in montana like a bunch of idiots. i am tired of being embarrassed by this old gas-bag. max- retire already, before you start wandering around the neighborhood in your underwear like our uncle lloyd....


Stick to small stuff (4.00 / 1)
O K, nobody wants to talk capitalism, I understand. Going back to transatlanticnomad considering the possibility twitter could replace the "old" ways of organizing.

This demonstrates my point well. In my world, "old" ways of organizing put hundreds of thousands of workers and students in the streets. Shut down the docks in Seattle and San Francisco or marched on Selma or the WTO in Seattle. It's called struggle and it is so far removed from sipping a latte while facebooking. Young people crave a movement.

Our president was a community organizer for certain valuable reforms and I believe on working on more than one front. But his critique did not include capitalism and so , like folks on this blog, he will always run into the same quagmires of theory and action.You folks and he will affect a certain range of policy and find this empowering but the big issues which excite young people, like justice, must always be pragmatized.( I made that word up!)

Anti-capitalists have their own problems organizing folks of course. But these stem less from contradiction than from the fear of progressives to take the next logical step left.They fear being banished to the realm outside "acceptable" discourse.


Troutsky is best name ever for Montana politics. (0.00 / 0)
And did you catch this from today's Washington Post as highlighted by Jane Hamsher? http://fdlaction.firedoglake.c...

[ Parent ]
Not necessarily (0.00 / 0)
Anti-capitalists have their own problems organizing folks of course. But these stem less from contradiction than from the fear of progressives to take the next logical step left.They fear being banished to the realm outside "acceptable" discourse.

Every effort requires the proper tools, including language, and most progressives don't know proper ways of speaking about capitalism or understanding of collectivism.  That makes them easy prey for those who have put major effort and time into turning 'socialism' into a pejorative.  In short, It's not that folks are afraid of talking about capitalism vs communism/socialism.  It's that, for the most part, they don't know how.

Combine that with a built in sense of guilt or hypocrisy and yes, anti-capitalists do have big problems organizing.  The overwhelming majority of those you wish to organize are where they are and have what they have precisely because of capitalism.  No easy thing to speak out against it without admitting to culpability.


[ Parent ]
re-inventing "movement" (0.00 / 0)
I'd second that "young people crave a movement," I'm just questioning what form that movement will take.
I was in Seattle, and what I took away from it was that young people's activism had moved from marching to direct action (and granted, there were enough people my age that were still into marching up and down the street).
My hunch is that every once in a while, the formats change, and that's where my question was going, re: Twitter, Facebook, etc.
Though JC obviously has a point in saying that the problem to be dealt with is the infrastructure being in the hands of a few corporations (whereas the streets belonged to us? Really, though?)

[ Parent ]
wonder where the Real Left is - it's not here (0.00 / 0)
    http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ka.cfm...

For those of you who want Rahm the Neo-Lib/DLC king maker to succeed please find a new board... the DLC is the bane of our Democracy, of our democratic well being. Emanuel 'knocking heads' is indicative of the lack of knowledge that some Progressives have of the nefarious pernicious DLC and it's henchmen. BTW Schweitzer is one!
Obama chose the DLC-Neo-libs and to that end IT IS his fault that we are going out backwards. He is the 'decider' and he decided to choose all kinds of virulent DLC cronies.
 i posted their website in hopes that ppl like 'papa' would investigate the horrors that Clinton heaped on us.
 The DLC is not for the Working Class, hence the continuation of the illegal invasions occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq; the hand out to the Insurance Cartel; and all things Bad for the Working Class.

 One of the reasons for the dissatisfaction with the Dem legislators is due to Centrists like 'Centrists in the West' blog. i can no longer call it left - this is a centrist blog. The audacity to ask why 'Single Payer' hasn't matured in congress from Jay Stevens on this centrist blog is an insult.

 The Bahkass affair and the ensuing rag material is just that - a non issue. It does not ring any bells of impropriety - YET, but keep digging.
 


uh... (0.00 / 0)
...I had nothing to do with the decision to take single-payer off the table. I just noted that it had, and it stood no chance anyway, and that reform, if it included a strong public option would be a decent alternative. If that makes me a "centrist," I'm guilty as charged. And if you're an example of how "leftys" get sh*t done, I'm glad to not be a "lefty."

[ Parent ]
Hemmm, (0.00 / 0)
So, the "real left" isn't here, according to Darwin's mental fantasia hit parade.  But I sincerely do have to wonder.

1)  If this isn't the "real left", where is it?
2)  If this isn't the "real left", then why does Darwin choose to continue to annoy everybody here?  Shouldn't he stuffing pamphlets or promoting the "real left"?
3)  Who on Earth or Xenu or Midgaard told Darwin that he gets to decide who belongs where, save maybe those spirits who plague him with visions of his importance?


[ Parent ]
NO Chance (0.00 / 0)

   ...there's no chance you'll be a lefty that's for sure.

    Resorting to 'also ran'/pubic option, to start a campaign of reform with, is the unprincipled tactics of a luzer! To bad the Right thing and the principled thing 'Single Payer' was out of your CENTRIST reach. You are not a Progressive; the damage you did to bring Single Payer down will have it's consequences. Supporting the Insurance Cartel is all you did.

    When the chips are down i would not want you in my 'foxhole' because you'd be running away in the face of difficult corporate terrorism - you took the cowards stand on Single Payer. And to employ it in your dialogue, trying to make it look like you were for it is a lie. Centrist/BlueDawg in the West is all you'll ever be.

   


[ Parent ]
I'm Pretty Angry With The President (0.00 / 0)
but if I blow off voting in 2010, that won't be why.  I don't the our House incumbent is particularly vulnerable, none of the big statewide offices are up, and I think my state senator is a lock.  The state house seat is open, so maybe that'll be enough.

Gotta remember Tip O'Neil on this.  Individual candidates can get voters excited about races, and buck regional or national trends.  Fail at that, though, and you just lose.

Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law.


Thanks for engaging (0.00 / 0)
Wulfgar : You make good points about "built in sense of guilt or hypocrisy" and "culpability". The left-Left has guilt over support for USSR and yes, the "good life" extracted from the labor of the Excluded does cause complacency and apathy, causing guilt.It's not, however, insurmountable.

Trans: I'm not so sure "the formats change".There is no substitute in my mind for resistance and struggle in the street or the shop floor. It builds a unique solidarity.

Darwin: I don't mind the label left-Left. "Left" used to indicate some position on Market fundamentalism but now neoliberals can be the "real" left.

Tokaski: Where can "concerted political organization" spring from when the real class analysis is left out? ( not "middle class" vs upper class) You respect Republicans because they are "successful" at not being principled or idealistic?


The DLC (0.00 / 0)
 
  The DLC/Neo-Liberals are doing everything in their power to make it look like it is the 'real left' but it's not, they are the Neo-liberals - worse than Neo-cons to be sure, their insidious and nefarious methods are well rehearsed and disbursed  IE the entire appointment of DLC thugs, the push to continue engaging in illegal occupations for corporate oil is indicative of the power/money DLC mafia... Rahm Emanuel and company, of which Hillary is the titular head.
  They have used the terms NEW Democrat all over the place - check out the website i sent above. See who is running the show. And the plethora of new labels to camouflage their pernicious methods and NAFTA ends, Corporate Hegemony...

[ Parent ]
The Guilt (0.00 / 0)
The guilt I think is tolerable, especially given our social will to pass on faults and debts to different generations as we see fit (back as well as forward.) The apathy will pass as pain grows; we're seeing that right now. But there's kind of a cross purpose here.  One can't willfully motivate what must come from the pain of being sedentary.  Ol' jed and Mark T. seem to know that, but waste their efforts rather dramatically here, railing against those who are not sedentary under the mistaken impression that those others are.  People appear ready to move, even here, but the 'where' is problematic at best.

Without getting into it too much, most movements of inclusion (collectivism) have to arise organically.  Online networking (blogs, facebook, et al.) are very organic but that in themselves leaves them disorganized to agenda.  It should be obvious from interaction here that that's the case.  So, the question that remains for anti-capitalists is this:  how does one bring order to chaos without disrupting the impetus that gave rise to the necessary chaos in the first place?


[ Parent ]
You're correct. (0.00 / 0)
Your response to the question is mush.

Mark, ever since you declared jihad against this website and all your other fantasy demons, you've been screaming and wailing that 'we need to ORGANIZE!'.  And since that time, I and others have asked you time and time again to explain how.  What is your plan?  What is the goal?  What are the structures that need to be destroyed and what needs to be rebuilt in it's place?  Can this be done constitutionally? Is it time for extra-constitutional action?  If so, what? Your only response is to insult others for asking the questions, blaming others because you don't have a clue how to force, cajole, convince or organize them to give you what you want. But see Mark, it isn't anybody else's job to define and organize and implement your goal, all the more so since you don't even seem to know how to get there from here.  The only concrete plan you have is to attack Democrats, a plan that you defend jealously and venomously, without ever having to explain how that leads to you getting to the very goal you can't even define.  So don't be pointing fingers that others are offering mush, Mark.  You're soaking in it.  


[ Parent ]
Once again, Mark (0.00 / 0)
Lots of words, lots of assumptions, lots of accusations and absolutely no use.  Resist, challenge and question authority to what end, Mark?  Change for the sake of change? As I wrote quite clearly:

The only concrete plan you have is to attack Democrats, a plan that you defend jealously and venomously, without ever having to explain how that leads to you getting to the very goal you can't even define.


[ Parent ]
How very Puritan (0.00 / 0)
it helps to make Democrats aware that they are wasted energy.  

Mark, has it occurred to you that it's that very bigoted objectification that has you chasing your tail?  It's self-defeating from the get-go, a denial of reality and an admission that there is no purpose to your efforts at all.  In short form, it's a delusion, just like I've been saying.


[ Parent ]
Not hardly? (0.00 / 0)
So it hasn't occurred to you that that you're a bigot?  Small wonder.

Democrats aren't dead, Mark.  They are people, very much alive; many of the people who right now disagree with you.  That seems to be their greatest crime, as far as your delusion is concerned.  Some of them are agents of change, and some are not.  The bigot can't tell the difference.  That would be ... you.

But I do appreciate that you are finally honest, at least to this small degree.  What you really want is for people who you have demeaned, insulted, denigrated and abused to 'thank you' for the abuse, and the useless job you do.  That's nice to know.


[ Parent ]
Are voters owned, or earned? (0.00 / 0)
The very notion of "the base" implies ownership, and a real disconnect to promises made, and expectations held by voters from the last election.  When voters ask Democrats:  What have you done for me lately? The answer is unclear - "I'll have to get back to ya' on that." Candidates win or lose for rediculous reasons, but winning at all cost has really turned away a lot of voters. So, now it's base vs. base, as the percent of eligible voters drops dangerously low.  At some point it's hard to call an election "democratic" or valid.  But Rs and Ds don't seem to care, winning is all that matters, and it shows.

Losing has become so horrific, a scapegoat is constructed to rationalize the loss.  For Democrats, its Nader.  For Republicans, Perot.  I doubt, however, you'd ever hear Wolfgar, call Libertarian Stan Jones a "loser." That's because the perception among Republicans (and many Dems) is that Jones's 10,000 votes took (stole) more from Burns than Tester. It was a close one. In fact, Jones's votes were free individuals who voted for Jones. The theory of previously-owned votes is insulting. When party hacks whine about "stolen" votes by a 3rd-party or independent "spoiler" it should be taken as a compliment by that candidate that fought hard in a rigged system, hard enough to make the Bigs feel a little fear, and some pain. The system needs more, not less of it.  

The two-party party is getting smaller.  Independents are frustrated and growing in numbers.  Interesting times ahead.    


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