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Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
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If You Haven't Seen This
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It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Putting the inmates in control of the asylum

by: Jay Stevens

Tue Jan 26, 2010 at 10:16:48 AM MST


Great discussion on some of the reasoning surrounding Citizen's United, which reinforced the concept of "corporate personhood," and promises to unleash corporations on political campaigns.

James Fallows points out this statement from Chief Justice John Roberts, challenging the notion that corporations engaging in elections causes harm to shareholders:

"Roberts sharply challenged this line of argument. 'Isn't it extraordinarily paternalistic,' he asked, 'for the government to take the position that shareholders are too stupid to keep track of what their corporations are doing and can't sell their shares or object in the corporate context if they don't like it? ... ' "We the government have to protect you naive shareholders." '

As Solicitor General Elena Kagan pointed out, most folks own stock through mutual funds and retirement funds, and have little or no influence over corporate action or even knowledge of what the corporations are doing. Fallows:

Of course Kagan's response is the practical and real-world one. Virtually all such "wealth" as my wife and I hold, apart from our house, is in low-cost indexed mutual retirement funds. I literally have no idea which specific companies I might have bigger or smaller positions in. By the prevailing wisdom of the day, I'm behaving rationally for a non-expert prudent investor. By Roberts' standard, I am "too stupid to keep track" of what every one of these companies is doing and shifting my positions day by day in response. Or maybe just too lazy.

Felix Salmon chips in:

As long ago as 2003, Roberts owned no fewer than 46 different common stocks, on top of 31 different mutual funds, one ETF, and a REIT. I very much doubt that he was keeping track of what all of the corporations he owned were doing, and selling his shares or objecting in the corporate context if he didn't like it. And I don't think that he believed that his mutual-fund managers were doing that either. Maybe he assumed that the magical qualities of the efficient market hypothesis meant that he didn't need to do that, and that some other group of shareholders would do it for him....

As Justin Fox noted in a 2006 column, it's been some time since boards of directors have actually performed their function, "that of vigilant monitors of CEO pay and performance," having long since been taken over by the managers they were supposed to watch. Roberts' notion that corporations answer to any kind of populist shareholder pressure can't be characterized as merely quaint, but instead as dangerously oblivous.

Glenn Greenwald, on the other hand, defended the court's decision, arguing that it did strike down campaign finance laws that were overly burdensome especially to nonprofit organizations and that it won't give over more power to corporations because, essentially, they already control the body politic. Here's the main basis of his argument:

I tend to take a more absolutist view of the First Amendment than many people, but laws which prohibit organized groups of people -- which is what corporations are -- from expressing political views goes right to the heart of free speech guarantees no matter how the First Amendment is understood. Does anyone doubt that the facts that gave rise to this case -- namely, the government's banning the release of a critical film about Hillary Clinton by Citizens United -- is exactly what the First Amendment was designed to avoid? And does anyone doubt that the First Amendment bars the government from restricting the speech of organizations composed of like-minded citizens who band together in corporate form to work for a particular cause?

But, as Fallows, Fox, and Salmon point out, corporations aren't "like-minded citizens" who "band together" to "work for a particular cause." Unlike most non-profits I know, corporations are a mass of shareholders oblivious and captive to the irrational or biased political beliefs of a small group of executive managers. Ironically, that's what Justin Fox argues violates Milton Friedman's demand that corporate executives shouldn't "impose their own notions of social responsibility on corporations that were owned by others."

The individuals who make up the electorate in the United States are, as Friedman described, beings of many facets - their actions and their views shaped by pecuniary self interest but also by values, beliefs, and loyalties that might conflict with that self interest. The ideal for-profit corporation, on the other hand, is out to do nothing but make as much money as it can "within the rules of the game." It is supposed to behave in a fashion that for an individual would probably be described as psychopathic. And if corporations are allowed to play a decisive role in shaping the "rules of the game," we have effectively put the inmates in control of the asylum.

This feels like a pretty compelling justification for treating corporations differently from individuals in the political process.

Jay Stevens :: Putting the inmates in control of the asylum
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Rational Actor (0.00 / 0)
At the heart of it lies a belief in the rational actor, the "democratic citizen" who can see through propaganda and base decisions on self-interest as deduced empirically. It is also, by the way, the logic which drives market theory.

It is, of course, seriously flawed in both spheres which is why capitalism is simply a system of domination and democracy under it is such an abortion. Does every car commercial make every viewer get up and go buy a new car? No. Do car commercials work? of course. The unconscious is at work as are a number of psychological transferences and other mechanisms which affect rational analysis.

Does each Congressman who gets a donation vote in that interest? No. Do donations influence policy? of course.

In both cases, as well as the workings of the Market, there is an ambient "structure", the culture,institutions,all the messages and myths, the ideology, as it were, that is in play and also determines behaviour. Believe me, it is not all rational and whether the Founding Fathers were cognizant of this or not, today's ruling class definitely is.


Republicans, and other (0.00 / 0)
opponents of campaign finance reform, like say they support no limits, but full transparency...that makes me feel warm all over!  Imagine, a corporation, or an individual, or an industry, gives Max Baucus $500,000...and he reports it, and I can see it cus' there's "transparency"...it's right there next to my $25 contribution...I wonder who has more influence?

The system we live under is corrupt...it is bribe driven. For anyone to think that is a good thing must have their head up their ass.



~Sigh~ (0.00 / 0)
Jay:  "...corporations aren't "like-minded citizens" who "band together" to "work for a particular cause." Unlike most non-profits I know, corporations are a mass of shareholders oblivious and captive to the irrational or biased political beliefs of a small group of executive managers."

There are many examples that contradict your view.  Here are just a couple:

http://www.theclimategroup.org...

http://www.thegreenpowergroup....


Disasterous ruling (0.00 / 0)
The decision devalued every person's citizenship rights by granting a First Amendment "right" to corporations, many of which are effectively under the control of foreign nationals.
I think 100 years from now the Citizens United case will be remembered as the Dred Scott decision of the 21st century -- only more far-reaching.
The only solution is a Constitutional Amendment, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

JAYoung (0.00 / 0)
First Amendment rights are not exclusive to citizens.  They extend to all persons.  The Supreme Ct. has recognized corps as persons since 1886.  Corporations are also recognized as persons under federal statutes.   This is not new.

[ Parent ]
SCOTUS makes NEW LAW (0.00 / 0)

  This decision by the SC is one of the worst ever decisions - it will be like a thousand Haitian Disasters and they were in one before the earthquake. This is terrible news for the voter.
   It is irrational and prejudice in favor of Corporate Tyranny.  
   WE ARE Corporate Slaves. This decision eliminated any possibility of salvaging Democracy.

   i can not figure out what this Jay Stevens is saying with the Inmates and Asylums blather; or what he's for or not. Looks like a pastiche of ideas, thoughts and opinions but does not line up in the 'asylum' and what are the inmates doing.  
   But i'm not surprised ... the main writers on this centrist blog were and still are entirely clueless in the account of Single Payer action... A major portion of the energies to implement Single Payer/Medicare for All is to deal Corporate Tyranny a crushing blow. But no, the brain dead centrist didn't get that then and they don't get it now. It's safe to say centrist thought = mediocrity.  


Why all of the overwrought (0.00 / 0)
whinging here?  

[ Parent ]
That's just how he rolls. (0.00 / 0)
He really despises the website and it's writers ... which is why he reads it all the time.  Go figure.

[ Parent ]
not a potent point (0.00 / 0)
pbear, draw yourself 3 concentric circles.  The outter circle is "person."  The middle circle is "people."  The remaining inner circle is "citizen."  The rights of each are different.  "Citizens" have the most rights including voting and juries.  Mere corporate entity "persons" have the least.  "People" non-citizens have rights greater than mere "persons" but lesser then "citizens." There are important distinctions here.  Conflating all 3 into one misses the meaningful distinctions.

[ Parent ]
That poll is frightening (0.00 / 0)
Mostly, it's scary because the SCOTUS didn't rule on whether corporations are people.  It took one big step towards that, but has yet to rule specifically on the topic.

Honestly, this is one of those situations where the reductio ad absurdum has to be pushed to the hilt.  The Kos diarist makes a good attempt, but it will take more than words.  It needs to be fought out in the courts of the land and the legislature.  That's why I'm so high on Grayson's initiatives.  He's pushing directly towards such a confrontation, one our highest Court doesn't really want to have.


[ Parent ]
will everyone please ..... (0.00 / 0)
place your right hand on your wallet and remain standing for your new national-corporate anthem....
http://listen.grooveshark.com/...

[ Parent ]
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