GOP Blocked Ban on Using Taxpayer $$ for Golden Parachutes Before Tapping Parachuter as Leader

Tokarsky's smug nihilism (0.00 / 0)

To take the position that all politics is corrupt and that, therefore, it is naive or unevolved to point out corruption in a particular political party is condescending pseudo-intellectual crap.

We have a duty as citizens to work to better our country by attacking corruption wherever it is.  People like Tokarsky like to defend corruption against its attackers because they want to spread the message that it is hopeless to try to fix our problems. It's too big of a job.  What's the use?

Of course there is corruption in both parties. But many, maybe most, members of one party, the Democrats, are at least trying to better the lives of everyday Americans.  Members of the other party, on the other hand, are doing their best to maintain a status quo that rewards the privileged (you know, Craig's friends) while punishing everyone else.

The debilitating cynicism being peddled by the Tokarskys of the world is an instrument in the service of the those who have the most to lose if economic justice were to come about.  They're tools of the rich and privileged.    

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by: Turner @ Sat Mar 13, 2010 at 19:47:23 PM UTC

really? (0.00 / 0)

Democrats trying to better the lives of everyday Americans?

I don't think so.

'Hope and Change' has put how many million people out of work now?

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by: Eric Coobs @ Sat Mar 13, 2010 at 20:11:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

See who's defending Tokarsky? (0.00 / 0)

It's Eric Coobs.  Craig will be right behind him, I suspect.  Republicans know who their friends are.  They really heart Tokarsky.

Coobs, of course, is dead wrong about when the job losses occurred.  How many jobs were being lost per month when Obama first came into office?  How many jobs per month have been lost in the last quarter?

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by: Turner @ Sat Mar 13, 2010 at 20:28:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hope & Change (0.00 / 0)

Employment has been in a free-fall since The Great Leader moved into the White House.

Since February, when the stimulus package was passed, the number of people not in the labor force has grown by 3.2 million.

How do you like that 'Hope & Change' now Turner?

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by: Eric Coobs @ Sat Mar 13, 2010 at 22:09:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Explain this graph in light of your remarks, Coobs. (0.00 / 0)

You're peddling falsehoods. Typical tea bagger dreck.

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by: JC @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 01:15:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JCigie (0.00 / 0)

I notice your graph comes from the Office of the Speaker.  Also from the Speaker's office there is this from February of this year:  http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p...

Over the last 13 months, our economy has lost a total of 3.6 million jobs - and continuing job losses in the next few months are predicted.  

I think it is a bit harsh, even for you, to call Nancy Pelosi a "tea bagger dreck."

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by: Craig Moore @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 01:56:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The free fall started (0.00 / 0)

during the Bush regime. It peaked as he left office. And job loss has declined since, the free fall has ended.

Spin it however you want, Craig and Eric. Bush left office with a net job growth of zero over 8 years, losing over 4 million jobs in his last year alone.

And by the way, the graph came from Pelosi's office, the numbers did not. They came from the BLS, but I don't need to point that out to you because you know how to read, now don't you?

It's not the numbers that are dreck, it's how you guys are falsely portraying them.  

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by: JC @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 02:22:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC, where's the spin? (0.00 / 0)

Regarding 2009 this is what USAToday reported on 12/4/2009:  http://www.usatoday.com/money/...

WASHINGTON - Even before Barack Obama took the oath of office, his economic advisers projected that without hundreds of billions of dollars in government spending, the U.S. economy could lose another 3 million to 4 million jobs on top of the 3.1 million lost in 2008.

It turns out they were optimistic. Even with the $787 billion stimulus package that Obama signed in February, more than 4 million jobs have been lost in 2009, the worst year for job losses since World War II. The jobless rate that advisers projected would peak at 8% has topped 10%.

See the article sidebar with the reference to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

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by: Craig Moore @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 02:29:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

What does any of that have to do with (0.00 / 0)

the Bush regime and its bungling of the economy up the point he left office in disgrace?

All those figures show is that the stimulus wasn't strong enough. And the reason is wasn't stronger was that there wasn't the political will among republicans to allow it to happen.

If Bush would have done something sooner, we wouldn't have lost anywhere near the jobs we did.

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by: JC @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 05:02:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here's your spin (0.00 / 0)

Resident Bush's  "2008 Economic Report of the President (p. 26)" predicted the following in February of 2008:

"The Administration's forecast calls for the economic expansion to continue in 2008, but at a slower pace than in the earlier years of this expansion. Slower growth is anticipated for the first half of the year, and the average unemployment rate for 2008 is projected to move up from the 2007 level. In 2009 and 2010 real GDP growth is projected at 3 percent, thereafter slowing, while the unemployment rate is projected to remain stable and below 5 percent in the 2009-10 period"

So, until all you Bush apologists can start taking responsibility for how poorly your president performed, and how badly he predicted the future, any criticism of the current administrations projections and performance is totally without merit and hypocritical.

Here's Bush's specific job predictions for 2008 (page 38):

"The Administration projects that employment will increase at an average pace of 109,000 jobs per month during the four quarters of 2008,"

Bush predicted his administration would create 436,000 jobs in 2008. What really happened? Bush's "leadership" cost the country 3.1 million jobs in 2008. He totally missed predicting the housing bubble burst, Wall Street imploding, and the crashing of the economy into a near Great Depression.

And you guys want to quibble about the relative weakness of a horribly compromised-by-republicans stimulus? Hilarious. The goal of republicans is to allow the economy to deteriorate however they can so they can blame it on Obama and the dems and get back into power.

So deal with your denial about Bush & Co., and man-up about how you guys screwed sh*t up. You failed. All your prattle about Obama is just a crock of hypocrisy.

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by: JC @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 05:36:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Actually, the number of jobs Bush predicted (0.00 / 0)

he would create in 2008 was 1.3 million, not 436,000--that was a monthly figure, not a quarterly.

He lost 3.1 jobs, thus missed the spread by 4.4 million jobs.  

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by: JC @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 05:48:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC, you are quite (0.00 / 0)

full of it.  Where did I defend Bush and blame Obama?

Where I fault Obama, as a would fault any politico, is the delta between the expectations he created and the reality that developed.  Here is where Obama is at fault:  http://www.factcheck.org/2009/...

Pay attention to the 2nd chart with the red dots that plot a trend line even higher than unemployment without Stimulus.  Obama set the expectation for the hard blue line.  Reality is the red dots.  By the way, the light blue line without Stimulus is also Obama's claim. No doubt you will try and spin this as well.  Just don't go so fast that your butt catches fire. Here's the update for that chart:  http://factcheck.org/2009/07/m...

Here's a question for you, in what month since Obama took office has there been net job growth?

JC, you can close your eyes, click your heels 3 times, and say "Teabagger, teabagger, teabagger," and still wake up in exactly the same place of misery you are in now.  Chants and name calling just won't fix anything or change present reality.

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by: Craig Moore @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 15:33:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC, here is the very (0.00 / 0)

latest update to the chart showing the delta between expectations (Obama's hard blue line) used to sell Stimulus and reality.  http://michaelscomments.files....

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by: Craig Moore @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 16:21:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sorry you're unable to comprehend my point (0.00 / 0)

which is that Bush missed the whole upcoming Great Recession, much less did anything about it. And you republicans are unable to see or acknowledge that. Or to lay any blame at the feet of conservative ideology for the crashing down.

Tell me about the delta between the expectations Bush created and the reality that developed. Then maybe we will have some perspective by which to judge Obama's spread.

Otherwise your hypocrisy speaks louder than any words you may have blaming the current administration. Its just pure politics.

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by: JC @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 17:31:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

apathy is the result when when too much corruption by either party is percieved by the public (0.00 / 0)

and apathy fits right in with wealthy corporate interests (the Python's) strategem of absorbing our government as their own subsidiary.

the python's cause is aided by partisan bickering and keeping the left and right from uniting and reclaiming govt of the people and for the people.

monopoly is the python's ultimate goal and in order to achieve monopoly it must emiminate the regulators. monopoly increases profits which enables them to further constrict government regulation until its prey is asphizxiated, easily digestible and liberty, freedom and justice perishes from the earth.

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by: problembear @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 23:08:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My mistake (0.00 / 0)

That was in error.  Should have said February of 2009.

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by: Craig Moore @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 02:23:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC, I see where you (0.00 / 0)

sent out an SOS at another blog.  When you do expect the cavalry to arrive and bail you out?

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by: Craig Moore @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 18:09:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Au contraire, (0.00 / 0)

It is you that is in need of another tea bagger rally.

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by: JC @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 18:22:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

~sigh~ How cowardly for you (0.00 / 0)

to collaterally attack someone in another venue. Especially to attack them by name when you hide behind your mask. http://new.wavlist.com/soundfx...  

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by: Craig Moore @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 21:15:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I did not attack you at 4&20. (0.00 / 0)

I was attacking Bush & Co. and their vapid prognosticators. And I gave you credit for brining up some facts, "duly noted" and all that.

Of course, if you want to lump yourself in with those who supported Bush's forecasts and lack of response (those "Misunderestimators"), go right ahead, and feel abused if you must.

But all I did there was take your and Eric's points about how Obama's forecasts missed the boat, and thought it might be a good idea to compare how well George Bush did.
And as you can see from the evidence, he blew it much worse than Obama did. You wouldn't respond here so I thought I'd post my findings there so others can see them.

And to gauge the hypocrisy waters I challenged both you guys to compare forecasts, but you seem unwilling to look at Bush's failures, while chuckling with glee over Obama's.
And you haven't challenged my figures showing how off-base Bush misunderestimations were.

Basically, unless republicans, conservatives and tea baggers are willing to give the same scrutiny to Bush as they do Obama, I don't give a rats ass what they think.
It's all hypocrisy and ideological political bashing.

And I don't know what you're whining about over at 4&20. You can go over there and comment as well as anybody else, as far as I know.
I post articles over there because I've been asked to contribute. Not to hide.

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by: JC @ Mon Mar 15, 2010 at 00:35:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

JC, you are quite the asshat (0.00 / 0)

Here's what you said regarding me:  "And of course, Craig Moore had to step in for some tea bagger backup..."  You can't even admit when you are wrong.  Coward!!!!!!!  

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by: Craig Moore @ Mon Mar 15, 2010 at 00:45:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You were backing up Eric, (0.00 / 0)

a self-avowed tea bagger. Learn to read dip shit.

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by: JC @ Mon Mar 15, 2010 at 02:16:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

~sigh~ (0.00 / 0)

Craig, your argument would hold more water if many of the commenters over there weren't also the commenters over here.  I don't see JC's comment as an SOS, but rather an attempt to expand the conversation to over there.  He created content for his website; he didn't ask for help over here.

This website has registration and passwords.  4 & 20 does not.  That actually makes a difference.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 21:40:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I call it like I see it. (0.00 / 0)

Not everyone is allowed to post on the other site, like me.  He either knows, or should know that.  I can't refute his BS there.  Pure cowardice hiding behind his mask while trolling for support. Anything he wrote there he could have stated here in a new diary.  No reason to take the fight to another venue, call people out by name, hide behind a mask, and point to the discussion here.  Pure Cowardice!!!!!!!!!!!!

If my comments are unwelcome here, all someone has to do is ask and I'm gone in a heart beat. No fuss, no muss.

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by: Craig Moore @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 22:12:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tokarski Republicans (0.00 / 0)

I see that Tokarski reserves his sarcasm and scorn for Democrats.  He pretends to be "detached," but he's functioning (whether he knows it or not) merely as a Republican operative.

That's why you'll never see a Republican criticize him.  He's doing their work -- trying to persuade people that resistance to the party of white privilege is futile.

He knows the way of the world.  We lesser mortals just don't get it.

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by: Turner @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 15:51:12 PM UTC

Gosh! (0.00 / 0)

You really nailed me, Tokarski, with that word "moron." I guess the intricate subtleties of your arguments are just too much for me.  I'm not used to being in the virtual presense of such an intellect like yours.

I guess I'll go back to hanging out with the other morons who want to actually do something about our problems.

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by: Turner @ Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 16:22:16 PM UTC