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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

The limping sophistry of climate change denial

by: Jay Stevens

Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 11:14:28 AM MST


Not sure what's going on over there in conservative brains. First, it's Ross Douthat pleading for "complexity" in film and literature instead of a simplistic good v evil dichotomy, and now it's Red State's Vladimir nihilistic sophistry on climate change:

One thing a scientist must know is how ignorant we are about a lot of things; otherwise, we don't need scientists to discover new stuff. But the remark points to a naive hubris that is pretty pervasive among a "consensus" in the scientific world.

Just fifty years ago, the few believers in "continental drift" were derided by the geologic establishment as kooks on the fringe of science (if not worse). But evidence accumulated, and the theory, repackaged in the '60s and '70s as plate tectonics, is now recognized as the grand unifying theory of earth science.

So-called "Progressives" have a tendency to evaluate everything in life as if it were a deterministic, zero sum game. What goes up, must come down. In with the good, out with the bad. What goes around, comes around. Input X necessarily results in Output Y.

But real life systems don't often obey these rules; they tend toward chaos and often lead to counterintuitive conclusions. In business, they often create examples of The Law of Unintended Consequences.

The Laffer Curve is a perfect example. To a "Progressive", if you want the government to have more tax revenue, you raise tax rates. Cutting tax rates only benefits "the rich".

But the real world is governed by the chaotic rules of economics and personal choices. Arthur Laffer made the simple observation that if tax rates are zero, tax revenue is zero. If tax rates are 100%, tax revenue is also zero. Somewhere in between is a maximum, and tax rates above that optimum rate actually result in less tax revenue.

Businessmen don't need to have this concept explained, so they tend to be conservatives. Academics, trade unionists and Hollywood types will never get it, so they become "Progressives".

Pretty funny stuff, eh? Of course, the plate tectonics idea is a good example - only it's the Vladimirs of the world who are the left-behind skeptics decrying climate change as kook-ish. As for calling progressives "deterministic" and implying they're simplistic? Bad maneuver using to the Laffer curve as evidence, that over-simplistic and crudely deterministic bow hastily scrawled onto a napkin in a 1974 political meeting and ever since used to support the most simplistic conservative tax-cut rhetoric, that raising taxes invariably leads to lower government revenue, and cutting taxes leads to greater revenue. (Both are canards divorced from the reality of the actual, complex marketplace.)

All this complex thinkin' leads Vladimir to this post: "The Unbearable Complexity of Climate," whose basic premise is that the climate is very complex and we don't understand it completely; therefore, it's possible climate change may not be happening, and, therefore, doesn't need to be addressed. Follow this line of reasoning to its ultimate, late-night-smoking-pot-at-college conclusion, and nothing is worth doing or believing because, ultimately, no system or object is capable of being understood completely. Not climate change, not the existence of your friends, and certainly not the Laffer Curve's efficacy (or lack thereof) for predicting tax revenues.

Why get out of bed in the morning when your alarm goes off, when there's a chance all life on the planet will be obliterated during your morning commute by a wayward asteroid?

If the climate is as all-unknowable as Eschenbach claims, then there's a chance that climate change is happening...right? And do you, in good faith, knowing that there's a chance - what with the unknowable-ness of climate - that climate change will make the Earth uninhabitable for humans, do you in good faith sit by, or worse, actively obstruct any measures that might mitigate the possibility of ecological disaster?

That, of course, is countering the argument with their own brand of sophism. In reality, climate scientists do have more than a passing familiarity of climate science, and there is actual evidence of climate change accompanying varying carbon dioxide rates. And we should probably form policy around the evidence at hand.

But just as Ross Douthat isn't really pleading for more complex movies about war, neither are these folks concerned about shades of gray in scientific discourse. They're all engaging in sophistry to obscure facts that are politically unpalatable to them. A climate change "skeptic" represents a political position, not a scientific one. Such a "skeptic" doesn't question climate change, he rejects it out of hand, and opposes any political solution to reduce carbon emissions. Not because there's a good reason to, but because it happens to stake out a position defined by political allies.

And to what end, is the question? To defend the interests of Big Oil?

Jay Stevens :: The limping sophistry of climate change denial
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Actually Jay (0.00 / 0)
A piece that unintentionally f'ing stupid is pretty funny to me.  It's like candy.

One thing a scientist must know is how ignorant we are about a lot of things;

Yes, I'm sure they do.

otherwise, we don't need scientists to discover new stuff.

Uhmm, we don't.  Never have.  WE discover new stuff all the time, at least new to us.  And speaking of naive hubris, it's positively adorable how Vlad reduces people engaging in a valuable vocation to simple providers of what we need.  That nullifies scientific endeavor right there.  Full stop.  He didn't need to go on.

So-called "Progressives" have a tendency to evaluate everything in life as if it were a deterministic, zero sum game.

Uhmm, those aren't the same thing.  Vlad doesn't get that, does he?  That's high-octane idiocy, right there.

What goes up, must come down.

So says Isaac Newton.  Was he a "so-called Progressive"?

In with the good, out with the bad.

WTF?  We have a deterministic morality play going here?  At best, that's a tautology.  At worst, it's gibberish.

What goes around, comes around.

This guy doesn't hate "Progressives".  He hates Newton.

Input X necessarily results in Output Y.

Why yes, it does, depending on the values of X and Y.  Now this jerkoff is hating on math.  No wonder he's a science hating troglodyte.

But real life systems don't often obey these rules;

Excuse me?  The rules this jackass defined are observably followed.  That's the very foundation of science, right?  Science expects math to obey the rules, and on that foundation, we discover what the rules are.  We don't make them, and that's the fundamental lunacy in Vlad's little thesis. This chucklehead is a spiritualist, who actually thinks we create reality.  Then again, reality is known to have a clearly liberal bias.

(Real life systems) tend toward chaos and often lead to counterintuitive conclusions.

Yes they do, but he uses that word.  I don't think it means what he thinks it means.  Chaos is not unknowable disorder.  Chaos is simply an order of complexity beyond which we've mapped a trail of cause and effect.  That's why we understand, since even before Newton, that what goes around tends to come around.  Like, you know, dawn?

In business, they often create examples of The Law of Unintended Consequences.

Such reverence given to a "Law" that has been stated many times, and yet isn't a 'law' at all.  Unintended consequence is simply shit that idiots like Vlad never considered before hand, and didn't like when the consequence happened.  Now, Vlad would have us believe that it's the libs who are guilty of not considering consequence, while he does that very thing, like stating 'laws' that aren't, and equating business with science.  Id call that projection on his part, but I don't that ape is smart enough to do that.  And as you point out, Jay, he is in fact denying unintended consequence itself by urging inaction on climate change, while the evidence mounts that it is a very real consequence of our behavior.

On a much more troubling note, I'm certain you've all heard that Vlad's boss man got hisself a gig with CNN.


B+ (0.00 / 0)
Vladimirs is just the kind of argument a conservative high school debate coach loves. The funny thing is,most of the deniers I deal with use the argument that "until the science is settled" nothing should be done, meaning one demands  absolute "proof" before one may act.

It always comes down to cold hard cash of course, and the thought of paying the actual price of energy use, including all externals and the climate debt and reparations owed other societies makes even the most hardened free market guys cringe.

It's unfortunate there are no "politics" where this can be resolved.Helplessly watching the death spiral is frustrating.


Here's a different (0.00 / 0)
perspective from Dr. Judith Curry:  http://discovermagazine.com/20...

Do you find it hard to get people to talk about climate change without being evangelical?

I put myself in the middle, and I'm taking fire from both sides. Neither side is happy with what I'm doing. Obviously, people like Michael Mann are offended by what I'm saying [about the shortcomings of climate science], and I have received an e-mail from one of the people involved in the East Anglia e-mails who's not happy with what I'm doing. The so-called skeptics think I'm just trying to cover myself. But I'm not personally involved in any of this, other than that I've been thinking about these issues for a long time, and there are certain things I felt compelled to say.

Where do you come down on the whole subject of uncertainty in the climate science?

I'm very concerned about the way uncertainty is being treated. The IPCC [the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] took a shortcut on the actual scientific uncertainty analysis on a lot of the issues, particularly the temperature records.

Don't individual studies do uncertainty analysis?

Not as much as they should. It's a weakness. When you have two data sets that disagree, often nobody digs in to figure out all the different sources of uncertainty in the different analysis. Once you do that, you can identify mistakes or determine how significant a certain data set is.

Is this a case of politics getting in the way of science?

No. It's sloppiness. It's just how our field has evolved. One of the things that McIntyre and McKitrick pointed out was that a lot of the statistical methods used in our field are sloppy. We have trends for which we don't even give a confidence interval. The IPCC concluded that most of the warming of the latter 20th century was very likely caused by humans. Well, as far as I know, that conclusion was mostly a negotiation, in terms of calling it "likely" or "very likely." Exactly what does "most" mean? What percentage of the warming are we actually talking about? More than 50 percent? A number greater than 50 percent?

Are you saying that the scientific community, through the IPCC, is asking the world to restructure its entire mode of producing and consuming energy and yet hasn't done a scientific uncertainty analysis?

Yes. The IPCC itself doesn't recommend policies or whatever; they just do an assessment of the science. But it's sort of framed in the context of the UNFCCC [the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change]. That's who they work for, basically. The UNFCCC has a particular policy agenda-Kyoto, Copenhagen, cap-and-trade, and all that-so the questions that they pose at the IPCC have been framed in terms of the UNFCCC agenda. That's caused a narrowing of the kind of things the IPCC focuses on. It's not a policy-free assessment of the science. That actually torques the science in certain directions, because a lot of people are doing research specifically targeted at issues of relevance to the IPCC. Scientists want to see their papers quoted in the IPCC report.



Just one thing - (0.00 / 0)
Once again, I'll put up a question, an answer, and another question;

Question: What ended the last Ice Age?

Answer: Global Warming

Question: Did mankind have anything to do with it, or is it a natural cycle?


Not Surprised - (0.00 / 0)

OK Mark, I'll explain it for you -

The Earth goes through periods of unstoppable global warming and cooling cycles.

The last Ice age came, and went, and it wasn't caused by your car, or Al Gores' jet.

Can man affect this cycle?

There are conflicting scientific opinions.

Did Al Gore turn it into a religion for the left? Yes.

Now do you understand Mark?

(Next time I'll spell it out better, for the benefit of the pseudo-intellectuals over here - LOL)


Hehehe (0.00 / 0)
Don't understand science even a little, do you, Eric?

Oh, and you forgot to include that Al Gore is FAT!


[ Parent ]
Nope - (0.00 / 0)

I never comment on old guys who are fat Rob - it'd be like the pot calling the kettle black - LOL

[ Parent ]
"conflicting scientific opinions" (0.00 / 0)
um, no.

Science isn't about opinion ("it's my opinion the sun revolves around the earth" or "the earth is flat"). It's about observable facts.

Conflicting political and ideological opinions about global warming? Yes, very much so.


[ Parent ]
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