Event Calendar
May 2012
(view month)
S M T W R F S
* * 01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31 * *
<< (add event) >>


User Blox 4
- Put stuff here

Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
1 Comments
If You Haven't Seen This
by: Rob Kailey - Apr 28
5 Comments
Impeach the President?
by: Rob Kailey - Mar 16
15 Comments
It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
7 Comments

Search




Advanced Search


Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

The less enthusiastic reaction to the health care bill

by: Jay Stevens

Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 09:53:15 AM MST


Health care reform looks like it's on its way to passage this weekend. While I can't share Matt's ebullience, I'm not going to go as far as George Ochenski or Dave Sirota:

First, their leaders campaign on pledges to create a government insurer (a "public option") that will compete with private health corporations. Once elected, though, Democrats propose simply subsidizing those corporations, which are (not coincidentally) filling Democratic coffers. Justifying the reversal, Democrats claim the subsidies will at least help some citizens try to afford the private insurance they'll be forced to buy - all while insisting Congress suddenly lacks the votes for a public option.

Despite lawmakers' refusal to hold votes verifying that assertion, liberal groups obediently follow orders to back the bill, their obsequious leaders fearing scorn from Democratic insiders and moneymen. Specifically, MoveOn, unions and "progressive" non-profits threaten retribution against lawmakers who consider voting against the bill because it doesn't include a public option. The threats fly even though these congresspeople would be respecting their previous public-option ultimatums - ultimatums originally supported by many of the same groups now demanding retreat.

Soon it's on to false choices. Democrats tell their base that any bill is better than no bill, even one making things worse, and that if this particular legislation doesn't pass, Republicans will win the upcoming election - as if signing a blank check to insurance and drug companies couldn't seal that fate. They tell everyone else that "realistically" this is the "last chance" for reform, expecting We the Sheeple to forget that those spewing the do-or-die warnings control the legislative calendar and could immediately try again.

Good stuff, a real humdinger full of classic Sirota contempt and outrage.

And, yes, this bill appears to be a government bribe of the private insurance industry to take on the uninsured. Yes, the insurance and medical industries appeared to have financed the process. Yes, Democrats were the most egregious offenders - and did the Republicans abandon the process because their usual corporate overlords abandoned them for Democrats? Or did the lobbyists flock to Democrats because the Republicans abandoned reform? - my preferred party consistently ignored or even rejected the basic moral principles behind reform.

Whatever. We're stuck with a bill that doesn't really make much change to a very broken health care system, and whose cost controls are, at best, debatable.

But.

More people will have access to health care because of this bill.

Here's hoping that, as Matt does, that work on health care continues if this bill passes.

Jay Stevens :: The less enthusiastic reaction to the health care bill
Tags: , , , (All Tags)
Bookmark and Share
Print Friendly View Send As Email

Oh you of so little faith. (0.00 / 0)
You don't believe in the "first step" leap of faith!  You see, after the insurance companies allow this to pass, they'll allow more and more and MORE baby steps until we finally reach health care nirvana! 'Course, they'll all be rich and we'll all be dead. But ain't that what organized religion is all about anyway?  Reaching health care nirvana when we die?  Must be as far as I can see.

What? (0.00 / 0)
The cost controls are at best debatable? The only "controls" that aren't debatable are caps. Single-payer would cap spending. No one really knows the impact of a public option on long-term costs. That's why CBO couldn't score it. But they can score other stuff.

Honestly, what blows my mind on this shit is how much the many on the left have embraced a Glenn Beckian view of science and research. If you don't like a data point, you ignore it. It's bullshit when wingnuts do it. It's bullshit when liberals do it.

The moral case for health reform doesn't have a damn thing to do with impoverishing CEOs. It has everything to do with ensuring universal access to health care. Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich and Sherrod Brown aren't corporate whores or idiots. And they've all been far more engaged in this work than George Ochenski.


But we didn't get universal health care, Matt (0.00 / 0)
"If you don't like a data point, you ignore it."

This bill only covers 95% of Americans. 20 million+ people will remain uncovered. That's a huge data point that I will not forget. This bill is not a universal health care coverage bill.

And because it is not a universal health care bill, costs for health care for the uninsured will continue to be shifted onto the insured, raising their costs.

By definition, having 20 million people uninsured in a health care system is a huge uncontrollable cost. What keeps their costs down? Costs that are largely shifted onto the rest of the system?

And when we talk about costs, let's not forget the cost of paying the insurer. There is little cost control there. Sen. Feinstein's Insurer cost control provision was thrown out by the parliamentarian wednesday.

The single-most sure way to control costs was just ditched. If we were to cap payments to insurers, and mandate coverages, they and the providers would be forced to negotiate rates that would stay within bounds.

But no, we have to rely on all sorts of intricate and convoluted market maneuvers that nobody understands to try and coax fiscal responsibility out of our health care system, instead.


[ Parent ]
Right on, JC (0.00 / 0)
Matt says, "The moral case for health reform ... has everything to do with ensuring universal access to health care."  I guess Congress checked its morals at the door.

[ Parent ]
Pete, (0.00 / 0)
You don't strike me as a moral absolutist, though I understand it as an expression of frustration.

And what Congress checks at the door are daily polls, and campaign offerings.  I think that's a bigger problem than an unrealistic moral urge.


[ Parent ]
I'm hardly a moral absolutist (0.00 / 0)
And if I were in Congress, I would have voted for this bill, while holding my nose, because it's the only health care bill being presented.  But damn, I'm tired of holding my nose: whether it's a watered down health care bill, weakened climate legislation, toothless banking reform or casting a vote for a spineless candidate who appears on my ballot.  It makes me much more understanding of the nihilistic stances of folks like Mark T and Lizard.

I think you said it all, Wulfgar!, "And what Congress checks at the door are daily polls, and campaign offerings."


[ Parent ]
No, Pete. (0.00 / 0)
What Congress DOESN'T understand is that at this particular moment in time, the VAST majority of Americans actually trust THEM more than the insurance industry!  Who KNOWS when this perfect storm of reform fever will occur again, if ever!  And Congress BLEW it all to hell!  Instead of doing the right thing, they weaseled again!  They came up with a mealy-mouthed weasel ploy that does two things:  keeps the insurance industry hogs fat and happy, and kind of looks like they've done something.  Basically, it's the sausage making political process that has become our country's trademark, except that now it's been streamlined.  The sausage doesn't even have to pass through the digestive tract before it turns to sh*t!
It's sh*t right after the vote!

That's basically what we've got here, a sh*t bill that NO ONE wants!  Funny that the Dems think that this will be all the cover they need come next election.  I don't see it that way.  But the upside is that we may finally get some real progressives elected.

That sad reality is that the suffering will continue unabated.  


[ Parent ]
Color me skeptical (0.00 / 0)
Who KNOWS when this perfect storm of reform fever will occur again, if ever!  And Congress BLEW it all to hell!

I'm not convinced they have yet.  First, this vote in the House is far from certain.  The whole thing could still go up in smoke, which is why the only enjoyment I'm finding just yet is the caterwauling from Mark T.

Second, it's the people with reform fever.  That's the only reason Congress undertook the effort.  I still question if that fever dies should Congress pass this bill.  In truth, I don't think so.  If Congress doesn't pass this bill, then Democrats will get slaughtered at the polls, and 'reform fever' will be forcibly murdered by the Republicants.

Third, If one ignores Rasmussen polls, the American people are growing in favor to this bill.  It's just not right to say that "NO ONE" wants it.

Fourth, Americans have never, in my adult life, paid so much attention to the making of sausage that is legislation.  That alone is cause for 'reform fever'

Fifth and finally, this bill will alleviate some suffering, as you put it.  Not passing the bill is precisely the definition of suffering continuing unabated.  


[ Parent ]
Well, I view this a little differently. (0.00 / 0)
I agree with much of what you say, but to me, it's kind of like the civil rights movement.  All or nothing.  The end result of any health reform must be true health reform withOUT insurance industry bullying.  In other words, to me, health care IS a basic civil right.  Therefore, compromising away our rights to the insurance industry is no victory at all.  That would be like saying to black people that you can have certain rights, but not all rights!  I want ALL our rights to health care, just as every other industrialized country in the world has.

Oh sure, we were very slow on slavery too.  Many countries beat us on that, even some very backwards ones.  But in the end, we came around.  It took a civil war.  God knows why we are the way we are,  but every single step forward in this country seems to be achieved only after a protracted, internecine struggle.  Well, so be it.  I accept that.  Let the struggle for a basic human right begin so that we can again join the world of modern nations.


[ Parent ]
A perfect storm? This opportunity will never come again???? (0.00 / 0)
What? The day after this POS bill goes down to defeat, the Democrats will STILL have a majority in both houses of Congress, and they will still have the White House.

Democrats are the party in power...IN POWER.

There is NOTHING to stop these Democrats....who so dearly love hard working Americans, and feel health care reform is the single biggest issue facing America today....there is NOTHING to stop them from introducing, and passing a new, and better, HCR bill...NOTHING!  


[ Parent ]
Beckian... (0.00 / 0)
This bill does nothing to address the reason why US expenditures per capita are the highest in the world. To wit, the system incentivizes consumers to delay treatment, doctors to load on expensive procedures, and insurers to put as much financial burden on consumers as they can.

All the data points and bundling and "research" and "science" won't change the essential way we deliver and consume health care. You're talking about poultices on the wound, not any meaningful cure.


[ Parent ]
Think of the future (0.00 / 0)

I'm enthusiastic.

If it doesn't pass, the GOP wins, and America wins.

If it passes, especially if the Dems have to break the rules to do it, the GOP still wins.



Eric, I don't get it (0.00 / 0)
You are thinking in terms of politics while our country burns.  This bill is a travesty.  It doesn't address costs as the underlying drivers of health care are not address.  IN the past I pointed to Safeway's plan.  Health care costs are going up drastically as our population ages and people live unhealthy lifestyles.

Second, premiums are not going down. Even Dick Durbin admits this.

Third, we are likely to lose doctors as they are squeezed.

Fourth, as Caterpillar has shouted, their costs are going up drastically with this bill.  Look for even more jobs going overseas.

I just don't get how you could be all giddy over this.  Politics and party affiliation  are such a waste when our country is at the breaking point.


[ Parent ]
It has to happen Craig - (0.00 / 0)

I know I'm thinking politics, but honestly, these things have to happen, just so we don't elect another Obama in this lifetime.

He'll be even more ineffective after this falls elections than he is now, because he will be limited as to how much more damage he can do by GOP majorities.

Then in 2012, we'll have a trifecta, a conservative in the White House, and strong majorities in both chambers.

The 'Hope & Change' economy can be fixed, this terrible bill can be repealed, and it won't be the end of the world.

Denny Rehberg said that if he were a betting man that he'd guess it gets passed, so lets's play the glad game, and look toward the future.


[ Parent ]
So... what??? (0.00 / 0)
Once you have your trifecta again, you gonna declare another war--Iran maybe--pass some more tax cuts for the wealthy, run up many more trillion dollars in debt and let the economy bleed until it collapses, just to had it off to the Dems and their trifecta to do it all over again???

You guys are nuts.


[ Parent ]
i see lots of people angry eric (0.00 / 0)
but i don't think you can count them as helpful to far right politics. just the contrary.  i see people who are sick of both corrupt parties and who want another choice besides corruption on the left and corruption on the right. something more in the middle.

plus, you guys are dying off faster than you can recruit. it is just a matter of time for the far right in this country. and if you look at a time chart of progressive legislation, there is no doubt which way the macro trends are pointing- toward more progressive policies that do not sacrifice the welfare of 95% of the people for the benefit of 5%.

you keep dreaming. i will ride the inevitable curve toward more enlightened government as the human race evolves. your genetic material is doomed to the inevitable boneyard of extinction.


[ Parent ]
This isn't a basketball game, Eric (0.00 / 0)
Damn near everyone, except those with gold-plated health care plans, are already losing: paying more for less than any other developed nation in the world.

This is a lame bill but slightly better than nothing.  If it goes down, nobody wins -- not the GOP, not the Dems -- well, maybe the insurance companies.  They spent millions on their campaign but will reap billions.
 


[ Parent ]
Seriously, Jay? (0.00 / 0)
You, the one who hated the excise tax and thought everyone should have $30,000 health insurance, are saying that the cost controls in this bill are debatable?

I hope you appreciate the irony there.


corruption is our right! (0.00 / 0)
if only our congress could be this honest about it....                  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...


[ Parent ]
excise tax... (0.00 / 0)
...won't control costs. In fact, if history is our guide, it will lead to higher costs.

The more people use preventative medicine, visit their doctors regularly, and seek early treatment of ailments, the lower all of our costs will be. Driving consumers away from their doctors with high deductibles means more expensive treatments down the road.

I'm not sure why you find it difficult to understand that driving people away from their health care providers with high deductibles and more out-of-pocket expenditures leads to more expensive treatment. That's how insurers have operated for years, and the costs are snowballing. This bill does nothing to fix that. The excise tax will only exacerbate it.


[ Parent ]
when you build on a rotten foundation (0.00 / 0)
you are just wasting the materials that go into building the house. this entire package is built on the greed of the pharmaceutical merchants and the health care insurers. no matter what well intentioned structure you construct upon this model of paying criminals to protect us, the further we will sink.

since it has been demonstrated that 98% of this bill was drafted by baucus's aide (a former executive with wellpoint) i don't trust a word of it.

neither do 73% of americans who give a damn about real reform.

i am not a nihilist. i have high hopes for a state sponsored public option here in montana to provide real choice for our citizens. as for matt casting aspersions at ochenski, i would propose that matt get his head out of baucus's ass long enough to listen to people for a change.  


[ Parent ]
This is all BS (0.00 / 0)
Because this bill specifically says that check-ups are free. Did you know that? I seriously doubt you have more expertise on this than the CBO does.  

[ Parent ]
Gee Matt, nice of you to take the high and mighty road here... (0.00 / 0)
But guess what...I do not like having a gun put to my head and Max Baucus, or Obama, or you, telling me it is better than the alternative....so I get the MANDATED coverage that I WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR, and because I have a pre-existing condition I go into the "high risk pool", and my insurance will cost twice as much as yours....but wait..I MIGHT get a subsidy to help "lower" my costs....maybe. A taxpayer subsidy that will really be a government handout to the insurance company that I didn't want to begin with.

matt- here's something to read (0.00 / 0)
while you clean the baucus-brown out of your ears..... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03...


[ Parent ]
pelosi rejects the stupak separate vote on abortion (0.00 / 0)
this should make it much more interesting. i really don't care if this passes, but this gives her fewer votes to get to 216.

one interesting side note. the teabaggers have been very muted  and pathetic through all of this. the astroturf rallies that once held the MSM attention have dissolved into incoherent rag-tag groups of the most deluded of the far right.

could it be that the pharmaceutical merchants who support the MSM and the corporate abramoff-linked sponsors that support the rallies are easing their florsheims off the gas pedal because the pharm-maggots and the insurance leeches are pretty much getting everything they want???!

well, try and avoid that observation if you want, matt. but i do not believe in coincidences.


Almost (0.00 / 0)
Try that sentence with a slight change Mark: "Maybe everyone on the courts EMBRACES CAPITALIST IDEOLOGY, including the Congress and White House."  "Corporate" really doesn't mean anything in this context, but the hegemonic narrative means everything.

But the question is ;what is to be done?" Of course everyone is angry but as Joe Hill said Don't mourn, organize!  So how, by "moving to the center" as was suggested above?  That's certainly what all our sixth grade teachers told us to do. That's probably what Singer would advise. But there are alternatives.  Blue pill or red pill?


Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


Bookmark and Share

Poll
Voting. Useful or not?
Yes!
No!
Maybe, but only if you vote my way.
There are theories that ...
Meh ...

Results

Blog Roll
  • A Secular Franciscan Life
  • Big Sky Blog
  • David Crisp's Billings Blog
  • Discovering Urbanism
  • Ecorover
  • Great Falls Firefly
  • Intelligent Discontent
  • Intermountain Energy
  • Lesley's Podcast
  • Livingston, I Presume
  • Great Falls Firefly
  • Montana Cowgirl
  • Montana Main St.
  • Montana Maven
  • Montana With kids
  • Patia Stephens
  • Prairie Mary
  • Speedkill
  • Sporky
  • The Alberton Papers
  • The Fighting Liberal
  • The Montana Capitol Blog
  • The Montana Misanthrope
  • Thoughts From the Middle of Nowhere
  • Treasure State Judaism
  • Writing and the West
  • Wrong Dog's Life Chest
  • Wulfgar!

  • Powered by: SoapBlox