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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Vogel Should Take a Lie Detector Test

by: Montana Cowgirl

Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 11:13:51 AM MST


Martin Luther King had a dream that Americans would someday be judged solely by the content of their characters.

Now, the character of yet another of Rehberg's inner circle has been called into question by the law.  Vogel, is trotting out the tired framed by political enemies conspiracy theory.  I guess it's everyone else who is lying, not him.  Vogel, a former cop, should know there is a simple way to prove whether or not he's lying.

It's called a lie detector test.

Since Dennis Rehberg appears to lack the moral fortitude to do so himself, let's call on Randy Vogel to voluntarily submit to questions about his recent activities with the assistance of a lie detecter test.
 
Rehberg has a real problem here.  Again and again, the character judgements of this public servant are proved to be unworthy of the office to which the people had elected him. In each of these cases, it was about more than the specific wrong-doing of Rehberg's close advisors and backers, his associates and staff. It was about a clear violation of the public's trust.

Those who seek to be public figures, elected or appointed staff, have a moral obligation to the communities from which they come and which they (are supposed to) take pride in representing. This obligation is simple: If you seek to be a role model, act like one.

Be transparent and honest. And, most of all, demand integrity of yourself and your advisors out of respect for those who look to you as an example.

Montana Cowgirl :: Vogel Should Take a Lie Detector Test
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Cowgirl, how about your character? (0.00 / 0)
Really, your political hackery stinks.  This case is headed for a jury trial.  Let the jury be Vogel's truth detector.

Part of Vogel's claim is that it is politically motivated.  With all of your "jump the gun" crap (obviously for political purposes) I am amazed you haven't asked for lie detector tests for Schweitzer's cronies that he installed in FWP.  

http://www.mtstandard.com/news...

The recent hiring of a Butte legislator and state Democratic Party director for the No. 2 job in the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks has ignited charges of political cronyism against the Schweitzer administration.

Two weeks ago, Rep. Art Noonan was hired as deputy director of the state wildlife agency for an annual salary of $85,508.

http://www.mtstandard.com/news...

Montana's Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks has undergone a substantial makeover, with Gov. Brian Schweitzer and Joe Maurier, the governor's college roommate and longtime friend, playing central roles in orchestrating the changes.

It's not an overhaul that all Montana sportsmen are comfortable with.

Insiders say Schweitzer strong-armed former director Jeff Hagener to hire Maurier as head of state parks in 2006, even though Maurier wasn't the most qualified candidate. Last winter, Schweitzer dismissed Hagener, putting Maurier in his place as director.

Maurier restructured the agency this spring, reassigning a longtime department No.2 to other tasks, while bringing in a new deputy, Art Noonan - a Butte legislator and immediate past director of the Montana Democratic Party. Noonan studied communications in college but did not earn a degree. He does not hunt and has not had a fishing license in Montana in at least 20 years.

Why don't you advocate for Maurier and Noonan to take the poly first?  


You don't get it. (0.00 / 0)
Vogel is being charged in court. With a crime, not with political cronyism.  Were you not aware that poaching is a crime?

[ Parent ]
If one follows your analogy, I should be asking the wardens to take a lie detector test about whether they were motivated by politics. (0.00 / 0)
That's a Vogel talking point.  I'm talking about whether he, Vogel, (the guy who is on trial) committed a crime.  

[ Parent ]
I get that (0.00 / 0)
you can't shoot straight and have no desire to.  Very apparent. Since you are into rhetorical questions, isn't knowingly filing false charges a crime? Why don't you demand Schweitzer's cronies take the lie detector test? Or are you only interested in selective crimes?

What do you have against your fellow humans to determine the truth as members of a jury without your spitball comments to help them along?  

What will you do if the state blinks and pulls back on the charges?  Would Schweitzer's political cronies not want the truth to come out?  Get the point or do you want to continue your display of "guilty by smear and accusation?"

BTW, when did poaching an egg become a crime?


[ Parent ]
Look (0.00 / 0)
Vogel said he sold the gun and made up a story.  Law enforcement frequently uses lie detectors to do investigations and determine how to go about preparing for a case.  If he's telling the truth, this will help prove it.

[ Parent ]
Really????? (0.00 / 0)
He said that he fabricated a story?  Sources for YOUR claim.

Cowgirl, perhaps you live in a different country than the USA, but those of us that do live here, the burden of proof is on the accuser.  Therefore, again, I ask you why aren't you demanding Schweitzer's cronies take the poly test to see if they are telling the truth about their charges?


[ Parent ]
Also, Vogel is a cop of 20 years experience (0.00 / 0)
And any cop knows that a gun in that situation must be preserved so it's a bullshit move on his part. He knew exactly what he was doing.  I never said Vogel admitted making up a story.

[ Parent ]
Larry's right! (0.00 / 0)
This post is BS.

[ Parent ]
Law enforcement did their job - nothing more, nothing less (0.00 / 0)
Law enforcement personnel didn't know or care who Mr. Randy Vogel was before, during or after the alleged poaching incident. To imply law enforcement made up the incident to be used as a political football is foolish and impugns the integrity of professionals. They did their job - nothing more, nothing less.

[ Parent ]
If they had done a (0.00 / 0)
professional job, they would have secured Vogel's rifle immediately after they removed the 270 bullet from the elk.  

[ Parent ]
OK, fifteen minutes is up. (0.00 / 0)
Vogel's had his fifteen minutes of shame.  Time to move on.  I just don't view this subject as worthy of a whole lot more  discussion.  It's in the court system, and will be adjudicated.  At some point, we ALL must have trust in the judicial system.   So he says he sold the gun.  Well, I believe him until proved otherwise.  I've bought and sold more guns than I can remember, most to people I didn't know. Vogel would not be the first guy to lie his way out of a conviction.  But again, we don't know that he is.  But I just can't bring myself to assassinate his character until  it is proven.  I've been in way too many situations with law enforcement to understand that some times,  things are NOT as they appear, espcially when cops throw out the old "he wasn't  cooperating" ploy.  I'll wait for this drama's denouement.  But lie detector?  Bad idea.

Larry, I agree (0.00 / 0)
Let the process work itself out.  Vogel has gone "all in" with his jury trial request.  If his bet fails, he is looking at a stiff penalty for having pushed the issue.  

It's too bad that a professional like Jeff Hagener was replaced with Schweitzer's political cronies.


[ Parent ]
Fishy as can be (0.00 / 0)
craig--randy vogel was a cop twenty years. him getting rid of that gun, he knew exactly what he was doing. there isn't a chance on earth that he did it out of pure innocence and a desire to clean his house of used items that he no longer needed. and of course that assumes that he did in fact sell it at a gun show. more likely he did not, because that would have left a trail and some good investigation on the part of FWP might locate the new owner. so he probably just tossed it in some un-findable place. and cowgirl is absolutely correct here. she's perfectly entitled to call on him to ask for a lie detector test, and he may  refuse. but it is interesting, in a PR kind of way if nothing else, to note that Vogel has never offered to take one. that's a common thing, especially when you are trying to clear your name.  but again, it is fishy as can be that he would ditch the gun. it's a total con, and there is no way to defend or excuse it. so cowgirl makes these assertions about a man who has been cited for four violations by an impeccably credentialed FWP officer, and who then did something that really smells. how does that have anything to do with the head of FWP, who vogel accuses of being involved but cannot cite evidence except that he and one of his top aides were appointed by Governor Schweitzer?  

[ Parent ]
Gumbo (0.00 / 0)
Revisit the chronology.  FWP get's a call about a wasted kill.  They go and visit Vogel in his motel. Nothing happens.  I'm sure they discovered at that time what rifle he was using.  Shortly thereafter they find the remains of a 270 bullet in the carcass.  Now, why didn't FWP go back and secure Vogel's rifle at that point???? Makes no sense for a professional to make that mistake.  Sometime between then and 2 months later, Vogel claims he sold the rifle.  2 months later after the incident, FWP serves Vogel with process. 2 months later???????? What the hell was going on?  

I am not going to make any conclusions as to why Vogel sold the rifle. If FWP never returned or contacted him in that 2 month time frame, I don't see your point.

You give a complete pass to Cowgirl over her politicized sensationalism and call for a poly test.  Let the process work.  Have faith in the jury to do their work without the spitballs.  If polys would do any good, then start with FWP personnel and find out why they botched the investigation by not timely securing the rifle and why 2 months later they served process with no intervening contact. Meanwhile there is evidence of discussing the Vogel matter within FWP.

This whole damn thing smells, especially the shameful politics of smear. For Schweitzer's political cronies replacing professional FWP wildlife management only further adds to the aroma.


[ Parent ]
????? (0.00 / 0)
where do you get that chronology? and randy vogel had nothing to do with Rehberg when it happened, so why would they possibly target him? sounds awful conspiracy-theory-minded. As i understand it, they did try to get the rifle, and he had split. again, who's version of the incident are you using for that chronology? i will agree the press has not reported a clear picture of what happened that night, but even if what you say is true, it's kind of a stretch to say that the cop was in on a poltical fix because he went to look at a carcass and didn't immediately go get a guy's gun, if in fact that is what heppened.

[ Parent ]
and (0.00 / 0)
and craig, you should remember that neither dennis mcdonald,  joe maurier or art noon had anything to do wit this, and yet vogel came out swinging at them. so how does that compare to cowgirl making accusations of a person charged with a crime, and perhaps a felony among them?

[ Parent ]
If I was Vogel, (0.00 / 0)
and I was innocent. I'd want to take a lie detector test.  I'd want my name cleared.  I'd do whatever it took to set the record straight.  That's not what we see happening here, Vogel is the one with the smear campaign.

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