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"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

I don't think that word means what you think it does

by: Jay Stevens

Wed Apr 28, 2010 at 06:59:27 AM MST


So, the other day in the post summarizing folks' views about Arizona's immigration law, I asked - rhetorically - why Tea Partiers aren't up in arms over that state's obvious disregard for the Constitution and its infringement of basic liberties. But, really, it was a rhetorical question, wasn't it? I mean, we all knew Tea Partiers wouldn't oppose the law - in fact, I'm fairly certain most of 'them support the bill, right?

I linked to a Jamelle Bowie post that said immigration law doesn't affect the demographic group that composes the Tea Party "movement," but it isn't just that these folks only fight for the "liberties" that primarily affect them, it's also that the use of the words "freedom" and "liberty" are code words for a conservative political agenda, not actual belief in, you know, liberty or freedom.

Jay Stevens :: I don't think that word means what you think it does
The Democratic Strategist:

Consider that the proponents of right-wing "freedom" are not even slightly inclined to back elements of a libertarian agenda that conflict with conservative identity politics. When John Boehner says "most importantly, let's allow freedom to flourish" he's not suggesting we should open our borders to more immigrants or drop the vestigial Selective Service system or allow gay couples to marry or let Latin American countries sell us more sugar or reduce military expenditures. Indeed, the very same critics who castigate Obama for limiting Americans' freedom also accuse him of being insufficiently eager to torture people, unduly hesitant to detain suspects without trial, and too eager to take the side of black professors subject to police harassment for the crime of trying to enter their own home.

Which is just to say that Boehner is a conservative. He sides with the military, with law enforcement, with the business establishment, and with the dominant ethno-cultural group in the country. In the United States of America, people who adhere to these values like to talk about "freedom" but this has nothing in particular to do with any real ideas about human liberty.

Back in September of 1960, the leading lights of the nascent conservative movement met in Sharon, Connecticut to found Young Americans for Freedom and they proclaimed that "foremost among the transcendent values is the individual's use of his God-given free will, whence derives his right to be free from the restrictions of arbitrary force." A naive person might read that and conclude that William F Buckley, Jr was a strong proponent of federal anti-lynching legislation and other civil rights laws since, clearly, it was African-Americans in the Jim Crow South who were most subject to "restrictions of arbitrary force" and general lack of freedom. In the real world, a couple of lines down the Sharon Statement is talking about state's rights, "the genius of the Constitution - the division of powers - is summed up in the clause that reserves primacy to the several states, or to the people in those spheres not specifically delegated to the Federal government." In 1962, YAF gave its Freedom Award to none other than Strom Thurmond, and in 1964 they helped organize the GOP nomination victory of Barry Goldwater, spearheading the party's turn away from its historic support of liberty for black people. Somewhat similarly, the far-right parties in the Netherlands and Austria are both called "Freedom Party."

Of course, this is so obvious and we knew it all along. The Tea Party movement isn't "moderate" or "centrist." It's not even new, it's the extremist conservative base with all its warts bubbling to the surface under a Democratic presidency.

What's unusual here, and why we have to even talk about it, is that the press has saturated our newspapers and televisions sets with images of this "movement" as if it's somehow a new and spontaneous outburst of the "people."

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All politics are local (0.00 / 0)
And because 70% of legal people in Arizona support this bill:
http://www.rasmussenreports.co...

It is hard for us who do not suffer with this problem to judge such a massive populace movement.  That, and it only was necessary because the federal government was responsible for enforcing and preventing the illegal immigration and refused.  So, the local government stepped up and protected their people.  I think Arizona should sue the feds for the cost of doing their job.


Protect them from what? (0.00 / 0)
So, the local government stepped up and protected their people.

From day laborers?  From pepper pickers? From nannies and maids?  From better food than Taco Bell?  Please clarify, Widowmaker.  What does this law protect Arizonans from?

And you still haven't addressed the points of Jay's post.  What this law does accomplish is xenophobia, protection from having to be around brown folks. It does so at the cost of intrusive authoritative power.  Isn't that the exact opposite of the "values" the poor little Tea Party espouses?

You might want to look into the term "Sundown Towns".  And we might want to start referring to Arizona as the Sundown State. Hell, it goes with their flag ...


[ Parent ]
Glad you asked (0.00 / 0)
You fell into the "illegals" are victim-less criminals.  But, its quite the opposite.

As for murder: it is estimated that 4,380 Americans are murdered annually by illegal aliens - a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population

http://www.wnd.com/news/articl...

Overall: Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year.

Rape: Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.  There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.  Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.

* In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.

Cost: Overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year. Factor in the crime as a result of the cocaine and other drugs being smuggled in and the number may reach $150 billion per year.

Still think illegal immigration is a "victimless crime" and we don't need to control our borders?  


[ Parent ]
Load of Crap! (0.00 / 0)
You post one link.

The links in that link?  The second is broken and only indirectly points to unverified numbers from Crazy man King.  The first has this in the very byline:

No government agency tracks crimes by illegals, not even attacks on police

What's that?  No NUMBERS? Didn't you just state with complete certainty what World Nut's Daily just wrote can't be verified?  Yes, yes you did.  (In case you;'re wondering, I really am LOL right now ...)

A quick question that I know you have no answer to; how many of the 4,380 "Americans" that both you and WingNut Daily assume really are Americans with no basis for your numbers, are not actually Americans, but themselves illegals?  What's that you say?  You have no numbers?  Oh, that's right, it's the Department of Justice that said it has no numbers.  You know why?  Because they don't keep them and every number you've posted here is based on a "news" organization that knows full well that the "numbers" don't exist.

Again, LOL.

Here's the really truly stupid part.  You attempt to chide me for "assuming" that being an illegal alien is a victimless crime.  But, in order to do so, you pull "statistics" of actual crimes out of your ass (World Nutcase Daily) to show how being an illegal is actually scawy.  No, it isn't.  The day laborer who hangs your drywall is not automatically a rapist, murderer or pedophile.  You know who are?  Murderers, rapists and pedophiles.  Whether they're illegal or not is really kinda incidental at that point, wouldn't you agree?  You might as well be arguing that Jews are all money launderers, and not to be trusted ...  Well they're Jews, aren't they, and some have been known ... ?  You are the one making assumptions, Widowmaker.  You are assuming, with no good numbers to back you, that illegals are all criminals of a dangerous sort.  Those kind do those things to good 'Murkins.  Bullshit.  And just for the record, if you want to have discussions about drug related crime and illegals, have it with Budge.  But I'll tell you what he'd say.  The best way to defang that beast is to legalize 'illicit' drugs.  Then guess what happens?  The crime goes way down, and so do the illegals committing the crimes they can no longer profit from.  Funny how that works, idn't it?    


[ Parent ]
Illegal Aliens are criminals (0.00 / 0)
Wulfgar, it is a simple fact that with 100% certainty every illegal alien is a criminal, it is built into the title.  I have no sympathy, apathy, or any kind of fuzzy emotion for a person that thinks nothing of our laws.  Then comes here, destroys property to do so, and then steals an identity with they arrive.  The best book on this subject is "Whatever It Takes" by JD Hayworth to describe the crime by illegals.

According to Arizona statistics as outlined by Hayworth, the average Arizona rancher has 50k in damages to his ranch/farm because of Coyotes and illegals.  Victimless?

Also, I am laughing my way to the truth factory.  You can't deny the statistics of Arizona and crime.  In Hayworths book he goes through the public records of illegal aliens and murder.  At the time, over 25% of all murders in Arizona were by illegals.  Victimless?  And that is another thing, instantly removing 25% of murder by removing trespassing criminals, not a bad day of work.

On that note, because inevitably by winning this argument JC/JED/some other liberal will pull the race card on this.  I mean every illegal, including the large number (estimated to be as high as 8 million) of Irish too. I only respect those who can respect our laws.

Getting rid of 20 million people that have no respect for our laws,and are criminals by definition, will alleviate the major budget crisis' we have including police costs, health care costs, and education costs.  Sucking away tax dollars from Americans.  Victimless?

So yes, Arizona is protecting its citizens from tax theft, identity theft, assault, rape and murder.  But, there are no victims of illegals right?  Hogwash, saying illegals aren't criminals is burying ones head in the sand and humming.


[ Parent ]
Yes (0.00 / 0)
And people who run red lights are criminals too.  I say, we pull over anybody who looks like they might run a red light ... sometime ... maybe.

Papiere, Bitte


[ Parent ]
It depends (0.00 / 0)
In some states traffic violations to include red lights are civil, not criminal =)

And to answer an earlier question, yes of course citizens also commit these crimes.  But if somebody commits one, that is illegally here, that is a crime that could have been prevented with effective immigration enforcement.  

And a second thing is that Arizona had their hand forced.  And In a similar way that Montana did.  Montana citizens wanted to use marijuana medically.  They passed a state law that would contradict federal law because they grew tired of waiting.  Arizona grew tired of the feds being worthless too.  If the feds do not want Arizona enforcing immigration law, than they should enforce it.  But, they ignore it and let the states suffer.  And then throw Border Patrol agents in jail for doing their jobs.  Its why I don't live in a border state because I don't like complacency on crime.


[ Parent ]
Please (0.00 / 0)
Assuming that you live in Montana, you do live in a border state.  And the same drug crimes that happen in AZ happen here, just not with the fanfare and frequency.

John McCain, senior Senator from Arizona, tried to instigate immigration reform. He was castigated by his own constituency for doing so, not to mention the media including anchor baby Michelle Malkin.  So don't tell me a lie.  He just didn't attempt what Arizonans wanted, which was the "brown folks" out.  They didn't get tired of waiting, they got tired of having to deal with Pedro ... legal or not.

Regardless, it still doesn't afford Arizona the right to supersede the Constitution. We'll see how that plays out.  I'm betting it won't come out in AZ's favor.


[ Parent ]
Rob, you're overloking the obvious (0.00 / 0)

I'd be willing to bet that you lock your front door at night - even though your dog has great ears.

Every country in the world controls it's borders, and strongly regulates immigration.

So do we, supposedly, but none of our administrations have had the guts to deal with it.

So I do not blame the State of Arizona for trying to deal with it themselves.

I've gotten to know the Tea Partiers, and some are carrying signs now that say 'No Amnesty' - and it's not because of their skin color, it's because the illegals are not U.S. citizens, have not immigrated legally, and have no right to be here.

That's it.

PLUS - the Tea Partiers have a strong distrust of Federal Government, especially since The Great Leader, President Obama was elected.

They think that he's just looking to create a block of Democrat voters by looking the other way as they jump the border, and then making them promises.

I can't say I disagree with them.


just wondering what cochise would be thinking about now? (0.00 / 0)
 citizens of america who have only lived here for 6.52 generations closing its borders to immigrants strikes me as a bit of irony and reminds me of an old seinfeld episode.....while people squirm around latent racism and try to be politically correct here.

"....not that there's anything wrong with that."

does america's history of compassion and a love of freedom for all people count for anything anymore? or is it all just about fear and survival now?

are the huddled masses yearning to be free no longer welcome?
because if that is the case we should all hang our heads in shame. liberty is for all who seek it's light.

cowardly teabaggers consumed with zenophobic zeal cannot extinguish it because it resides in the hearts of the brave.


[ Parent ]
There's a difference (0.00 / 0)

Hey problembear - my Great Grandparents immigrated here too - from Germany in 1885.

But they immigrated in the legal way, they didn't try to sneak across the border.

Big Difference isn't there?

Why don't you check it out and see just how strict Mexico would be if you tried to become a citizen down there and get back to us?


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