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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

MT Dem Primary Analysis Post #2- The influence of Gopher and Rankin and everything else.

by: Twohundertseventy

Sat Jun 19, 2010 at 12:59:01 PM MST


I realize that I'm a little bit late to the party now, but I was really busy in the last few days- I'm working with two other guys on an algorithm to rate pollsters and accurately project races based on polls- that will most likely be prominently featured at Pollster.com and rival Nate Silver's ratings over at 538.com.

Anyway, today I read the last couple of posts over at Flathead Memo, and saw the graph posted by James Conner under the headline 'Where Gopher won big, Gernant lost big'.
But is that true? Well, obviously it is, but it doesn't seem to be a huge surprise. When four candidates compete for 100% of the vote, it's no surprise that one candidate does badly where another candidate does well. The bigger question is, were the candidates disproportionately hurt in the counties where Melinda Gopher did well, or could James just as well have written a post titled 'Where Gopher won big, Gernant, McDonald and Rankin lost big'?

I'm not really interested in the question if Gopher hurt Rankin, but we can look at her influence on the Gernant/McDonald race by introducing the new metric 'Gernant TwoWay vote'- which is eliminating Gopher and Rankin votes and is defined as Gernant%*100/(Gernant%+McDonald%).

If we build a scatterplot for Melinda% and Gernant TwoWay vote, it looks like this:
melinda

There doesn't seem to be a particularly good relationship, and indeed, if we regress Gopher's vote share (and a constant) on Tyler TwoWay, it is insignificant (p-value .29).
That means that Gernant didn't lose particularly badly compared to McDonald where Gopher did well.

We can perform the same analysis for Sam Rankin of course, here's the scatterplot:
rankin

And here there IS some weak relation between the variables, with Gernant doing slightly worse where Rankin was doing well (upper left corner).
It's not too strong either though, the p value is .11 (which means that there is the chance of this occuring by chance is 11%- 5% is considered good enough to draw some conclusions by most statisticians, 11% is not). The coefficient of Rankin% is -.41, which basically means that for each percentage point Rankin got, Tyler lost .4% to Dennis McDonald in the two-way vote.

Some more analysis suggests why that may have been the case: Dennis McDonald was doing very badly in places where a lot of people identify their ancestry as 'American'- Gernant was doing okay with them, Rankin performed very well there. That suggests that if Rankin had not been in the race, those people would probably have gone for Gernant over McDonald. BTW, 'American' (or, as we could also dub it, white trash) is the only variable of even some predictive value for the vote share of Sam Rankin- he did not well with them, McDonald in turn did. But apart from that I'm at a loss as to why Rankin did as well as he did- and that almost everywhere, from Missoula over Big Horn to Garfield.

'American' identifiers, for what it's worth, tend to be disproportionately Republican, White and without health insurance.
They just aren't a huge enough voting group in Democratic primaries (in Montana at least) to swing the election alone though, which means that Gernant would most likely have lost in any case- with Gopher and Rankin in the race or without them. He might have picked up more of their votes than McDonald would have done, but not by such a prohibitive margin that he could have closed in- a two-way election might have resulted in a 56-44 McDonald win.

Anyway, we're not only interested in the influence of Gopher and Rankin on the race, we're also interested in which demographic groups Gernant and McDonald had their strengths.

Twohundertseventy :: MT Dem Primary Analysis Post #2- The influence of Gopher and Rankin and everything else.
For that I worked out two regression models.
The first one is pretty easy to read, and it already does a pretty good job of explaining everything.
The basic formula is
TylerTwoWay= 2.75+.9*Kerry+-.7*PartyID+-1.3*BaseDem+17.5*BaseDem2.

Basically we can split this in two parts:
First, good performance by Kerry worked in his favor, positive PartyID (=Democratic) against him.
What do we make of this? Well, when we look at the sum of those variables, then this is really about liberal/conservative counties. In conservative counties, Kerry underperformed party identification (mind you, except for Kerry's election results those are all estimates), in liberal counties, he overperformed them. There are other factors as well, but basically this means that Tyler did well in liberal, densely populated areas and not so well.. everywhere else. Native American population also shows up as a negative factor in the difference between those two variables (Kerry+PartyID).

The other two variables show a geographical divide: Tyler overperformed by  17.5 points in Missoula (BaseDem2: Missoula County has the value 1, all other counties 0. That's called a 'dummy variable'.), and he did worse when a county was far away from Missoula (BaseDem1: distance from Missoula, primitively measured with an online ruler and an online map).

This model is doing pretty well. I left out the first 20 counties when I was estimating the model parameters, so that I can look at how explanatory the model really is, and it does pretty well:

r2

We can also look at another model that is a lot better in statistical terms, but also hard to interpret: First, it uses more variables, second, it's heteroskedasticity-corrected, which means that it allows for the fact that the variables can have different variances at various points, so that things like this aren't a problem:

r2

The formula for the second model is:
8272+103*Kerry+30*Black+-22*Latino+-.059*PCI+.058*Median Household Income+47.5*Evangelical+.85*LDS+-157.7*Manufacturing (Jobs in the M. sector, %)+84.55*Obama+-5.9*Natives+29*Clinton_Primary+-102.8*PartyID+-80*Independents+-.75*RankinVote.

Make of this whatever you want, I think it's too complicated to be of great value for political analysis. Note, however, that it corroborates the other model by also including the Kerry/Obama as positives/PartyID as negative-divide. Also, Rankin shows up as a significant negative factor this time-  it's not enough to be significant as a stand-alone variable, but I'm almost certain that Rankin hurt Gernant.
Anyway, I just wanted to throw it out here because it's really good. Here are the forecasts for all counties (which means that it considers the data of all counties up to the one that it's making a forecast for, in alphabetical order):

ghhghgh

There are a couple of outliers, for example no model yet was able to explain how Tyler got only 4% of the vote in Meagher County, but overall it does very well.

But as far as I'm concerned, that's how I'd analyze the election- summarily: Melinda Gopher and Sam Rankin did pretty well across the board, suggesting that they were more a protest choice than anything else, Tyler Gernant was hurt by early voting and to some lesser extent by Sam Rankin, but looking at how he only carried Missoula and Flathead Counties, it's hard to imagine how he could have won under any scenario. Dennis McDonald won across the board, obviously, and had a Labor/Conservative voter coalition that helped him expand his margin of victory. Still, at 42% of the four-way vote he has to do a lot of uniting before he can concentrate on taking on Rehberg.  

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Goper v gernant (0.00 / 0)
I'd like 270 to get in touch with me privately at jrc at flatheadmemo dot com. I think I'm finding anomalies in the MT Sec State's numbers.

James Conner
Flathead Memo



McDonald is already taking on Rehberg (0.00 / 0)
More dismissive language, in your conclusion, about McDonald supporters and McDonald himself!  Trust me, I and many others I know who voted for McDonald are neither Labor nor Conservative.  

I'm a retired teacher who believes in a bigger role for government.  I believe in re-regulation and tight controls over big corporations.  I also believe in gay rights, getting out of our stupid wars, protecting our environment, and bolstering public education.

And Dennis McDonald believes in all these things too.  

I went to the McDonald-Rehberg debate in Bozeman yesterday and was very, very impressed with how well our Dennis did.  He tore into Rehberg aggressively on a number of issues and Rehberg looked pretty rattled at times.  Instead of answering McDonald's attacks, Rehberg often retreated, to irrelevant talking points (how bad Nancy Pelosi is, how we shouldn't apologize for America, how the new health insurance law will lead to poor health outcomes).  His manner of delivery was often Glenn Beckish.  His thoughts were disconnected and mangled.

Dennis was forceful and always coherent.  And he didn't back away from liberal positions because the room was packed with Rehberg supporters.  For example, he repeated his support for the public option in health care and promised to push for it when elected.

You say he (McDonald) has to do a lot of uniting before he can take on Rehberg, a statement which ignores the fact that he is already taking on Rehberg.  I think it's time for Gernant's people to stop whining and do what Gernant himself has done: get behind and support Dennis McDonald.        


Eh, I'm never, ever, mingling statistical with my (0.00 / 0)
personal bias. If I did, this would be the wrong hobby for me. I didn't tell the statistical program I used to analyze this to throw out the % of jobs in the manufacturing sector (something that I'd characterize as a proxy for Union votes, especially in a state like MT where only something like 5 or 6 counties have a manufactoring sector at all) as a significant positive variable for McDonald.

I didn't tell it either to throw out white trash (='American' identifiers) as a positive for McDonald support, or Conservativeness.

Jay put my dataset online, there are free statistical programs that you can rerun my analysis with. Feel free to do so.

And any candidate that gets 42% of the vote in a primary has uniting to do. Because it means that he wasn't the preference for 58% of people in his own primary.

You'll notice that I didn't preface this diary with the disclaimer that I was interning with Tyler's campaign: That is because it is really irrelevant here. I don't fudge my numbers. They're objective, that's the good thing about statistical analysis, as long as I'm transparent on what I do- and that I am. If you want, I can run you through the process I took to get to that data. It's pretty straightforward.

And I don't see how

Dennis McDonald won across the board, obviously, and had a Labor/Conservative voter coalition that helped him expand his margin of victory. Still, at 42% of the four-way vote he has to do a lot of uniting before he can concentrate on taking on Rehberg.  
is somehow dismissive of Dennis McDonald or his supporters. 'Dennis McDonald won across the board' actually implies that most people who voted for him are neither Labor nor Conservative, as does 'helped him expand his margin of victory'- suggesting that he would have won without them as well.

I think you're simply trying to read bias into this that isn't there. The primary is over. No reason to get negative on McDonald.  


[ Parent ]
I'm not quarreling with your numbers (0.00 / 0)
I suppose they're valid enough.  But your conclusion that a 42% victory (in a 4-way race among at least 3 strong candidates) is somehow weak strikes me as invalid.

The fact that 58% of Democrats preferred someone other than McDonald in the primary doesn't mean these voters will stay home on election day or vote for Rehberg.

This reminds me a little of the hard feelings after the Democratic primary in 2008.  Hillary voters pouted for quite a while, but when they realized that the Republican alternative to Obama was McCain-Palin they quickly got behind Obama.

I guess I'm a little annoyed that so few Democrats turned out in Bozeman to watch McDonald thrash Rehberg.  Where were the Gernant and Gopher people?  Was Bozeman too far away from Missoula for them to make the trip?  Are they still in the pouting stage?

Are they too bitter to help McDonald unseat Rehberg?


[ Parent ]
Well, I don't suppose that they will vote for Rehberg. (0.00 / 0)
But I don't think that it is unconceivable that a Democrat who voted for Sam Rankin in the primary will stay home come November. I don't think that we can know that, since we informed voters totally didn't see that coming- I didn't manage to find a single person so far who voted for Rankin. Looks like there is a HUGE divide between the political community and the less-activist primary voters here.
So I'm not sure that in the absence of a properly conducted opinion poll (which due to the robocalling act will be rare in Montana, the cost of an live-interviewer poll dwarfs that of a robopoll- $1,500 would have sufficed for the latter, the cost of the former can easily go into the high four- or low five-digits) we can say that.

Well, I don't know about the debate. Probably the more likely reason is that no one cared to turn out for that very lowprofile debate-- not even the McDonald people, after all. He got more than 30% in the primary in Gallatin, so he should have been able to muster some ground troops himself.

I guess the most likely explanation is that there probably were less than 200 Democrats who even knew that there was going to be a debate statewide, and that the Republicans had a concerted effort to bring some people to the debate. The MT College Repubs seem to be very active to me, and Rehberg probably had some people there as well (even though I'm a subscriber to his and the MT GOP newsletter; neither mentioned the debate). McDonald didn't mention the debate on Twitter either, or on his homepage, afaik. At least not prominently, I looked at his homepage yesterday.

Well, there are two kinds of primaries. Clinton-Obama turned out to be not too bad for unity, especially after McCain chose Palin for VP. With a moderatish Conservative like Hutchinson it might have looked a bit different.

But look for example at the GOP runoff in NC-08. According to PublicPolicyPolling, the supporters of Dude#1 see the Dude#2 10-75 favorably/unfavorably, the supporters of Dude#2 see Dude#1 20-60 favorably/unfavorably. I doubt that they'll manage to unite there.
I don't mean to suggest that the situation is that bad in Montana, but I think that McDonald shouldn't take the base for granted- I don't think that uniting the base before shifting to the center should be seen as a bad thing either, it's just a standard practice.

FWIW, I've already offered the campaign my help.  


[ Parent ]
I don't think there's a problem with his math (0.00 / 0)
It's his analysis that shows a lack of experience in politics.  He doesn't know why which factors should or should not be included, because he doesn't understand the relevance to campaigning or how the issues affect a race.  He'll get there in a few years though, i'm guessing.

Well, maybe, but for once the math (0.00 / 0)
tells me which factors should be measured in the analysis- that's what statistical significance is for- and the relevance of campaigning can be measured, in my opinion, for the most part by including a geographical variable. Gernant did most of his campaigning in Western Montana, McDonald more in Eastern Montana, from what I've heard. That's reflected in the model, as Gernant's % was lower in Eastern MT than it 'should' have been according to pure demographics, and higher in Western MT with an obvious bonus in Missoula (I didn't care to include a similar variable for Sweet Grass County, since it's so insignificant for the outcome of the election, but my guess is that McDonald received a similar 15-20% bonus there).

As for the issues, yeah, it's impossible to measure that in absence of opinion polling or a high-budget campaign that can afford making a couple thousands calls to households to survey them on the issues, but that's true both for me and traditional qualitative analysts. Plus, there weren't any huge issues in the campaign as well, except for maybe coal, and I didn't see any huge differences in the areas that will be affected by Otter Creek and that should therefore care most.


[ Parent ]
"From what you've heard" does not equal fact. (0.00 / 0)
This is a perfect example of how your analysis is lacking.  

[ Parent ]
Okay, but there's no way to know better. (0.00 / 0)
Or do you? Where did McDonald campaign, then? If this was a high-profile campaign, like Obama-Clinton or Obama-McCain, one could do an actual analysis measuring campaign stops per county. But that's impossible to do when there are no reports on 95% of campaign stops. And unless you're travelling with the campaign, you can't know where they have been most. From what I've heard, McDonald was most active in the Billings area, Southeastern and Eastern Montana. When you know that this is incorrect, then why not tell me where he was instead? And when you don't know it either, then why critizise? 'From what I've heard' doesn't equal 'I don't know', after all.  

[ Parent ]
you guys all crack me up..... (0.00 / 0)
wasting all this time on dissecting and examining every niggling detail of a disaster of a primary. the signs are there for everyone to see that the people of montana who once supported democrats are now discouraged by all this insider handling and navel gazing. we want to see the real change our politicians promised us when we voted for tester.

when we had bush and conrad burns to push against we progressives, independents and revitalized democrats were formidable but now that the democrats are percieved as a party that doesn't keep its promises by the very same people who swept them into power, it is time for a sea change in tactics.

like maybe doing what we were promised you were going to do when we voted you in; get us out of iraq, get us out of afghanistan, work toward energy independence, give us real health care reform and protect our environment. until these promises are delivered in real action, all your number-jumbling is meaningless. you will lose as long as you continue to operate like some insider club and refuse to allow the people to participate.

because brother, the republican party is more than willing to pick up all the disenfranchised independents and disillusioned democrats they can to continue their vision of a march to Hell.

if you truly care about progressive values put down the slide rules and get yourselves a compass. you are all on the wrong trail when the people feel that their government no longer listens to them. ask around and see for yourselves. i have and do every day. nobody trusts the elitist path that the democratic party has taken. it is time to invite the people in again. democracy is not something you control. it is messy, and the only way it works is if people feel that they have a stake in it. all this statistical talk is off-putting to anyone with any common sense or anyone who actually talks to people that do not already share your myopic vision.


[ Parent ]
Your analysis is that people voted for Dennis McDonald (0.00 / 0)
because they're sick of insiders and hungry for change?

[ Parent ]
you can't read? (0.00 / 0)
if you truly care about progressive values put down the slide rules and get yourselves a compass. you are all on the wrong trail when the people feel that their government no longer listens to them. ask around and see for yourselves. i have and do every day. nobody trusts the elitist path that the democratic party has taken. it is time to invite the people in again. democracy is not something you control. it is messy, and the only way it works is if people feel that they have a stake in it.

[ Parent ]
e.b. white on wilderness and man's arrogance.... (0.00 / 0)
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent
less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her
sweetness and respecting her seniority."

- E.B. White


[ Parent ]
"elitist path"? (0.00 / 0)
Uh...what does that mean? What are the issues "people around the state" are upset with the Democrats about? There are a lot of generalities in this comment, but nothing to actually sink teeth into. I'm not exactly sure how the Democratic party in Montana could be more open, frankly. It's pretty easy to get a seat in a county committee, run for office as a Democrat, or attend the party convention and help build the party platform.

Or do you mean national Democrats, like Obama, Reid and Pelosi? Or the state administration and the governor?

I'm still stuck on "elitist." What does that mean to you? To these people who tell you the Dems are too elitist?

Rasmus is at least trying to shuck his own bias with the analyses he's offering up. That's the purpose of the exercise. A lot of times elections don't mean what we think they do. This one could mean voters think it's "elitist" to do any kind of health care reform or deign to slap caps on carbon emissions or tell Montanans how much payday lenders can charge them.  


[ Parent ]
you need to fly back and talk to those in montana who don't already agree with you jay (0.00 / 0)
the saddest part is tester is chasing the votes of the people who will turn on him as soon as a republican opponent is announced anyway....

tester is being lured into a trap by a bill conrad burns and his friends in the timber industry first proposed in 2002, when there was still a market for timber. they will stab him in the back when they get what they want from him.

same goes for MWA. they can expect to see those hearty pats on the back from their new found friends in the timber industry to disappear quickly after they have pushed the last of their chips into the pile and lost it all for a cab ride home.

good luck getting your real friends to help any of you then.
that phone is gonna get real quiet.


[ Parent ]
democrats have turned a deaf ear to their natural allies (0.00 / 0)
to court the votes of those who will turn against them anyway. progressives have been shut out of the loop by baucus (remember there were only a few seats at that hcr table)

jon tester formulates a much anticipated wilderness bill for montana by locking out anyone who didn't agree with him.

i call that elitist, short-sighted and stupid to exclude people who helped you get in in a position of power in the first place.

and while we are met by locked doors when we complain about what all of our effort have won us?  are we to consider that an invitation?

this elitism has produced a lousy HCR bill written by health insurers, a lousy wilderness bill written by conrad burns and his supporters in 2002,  more endless war and senseless deficit military spending in afghanistan and iraq. need i go on or do you get it now.

it sure as hell looks like jon tester does not get it yet. but i fear he will in november 2012 when his screw-job timber industry friends turn on him for his republican opponent.


[ Parent ]
These numbers - (0.00 / 0)

I can't think of a single thing we can learn from these numbers, from a 4-way primary, across this diverse State.

The 800 lb. gorilla in the room, that you guys should be discussing, is how many Dems didn't show up to vote at all in the primary.

If turnout for the General is the same as it was for the primary, Denny won't have to campaign at all, and it'll be over the day that the mail-in ballots go out.


Maybe Rehberg would be smart not to campaign (0.00 / 0)
His performance in the Bozeman debate on Saturday was pathetic. If he goes face-to-face with McDonald again, he'll look just as lame.

[ Parent ]
I agree. It was like Rehberg didn't even know what to say. (0.00 / 0)
He's not used to having an opponent that attacks him.  He's never had one before.  I sure wish it were online somewhere so that we could watch it again.  I don't know what the dems are thinking by not getting it online ASAP.  Poor form.

[ Parent ]
Full audio is available at (0.00 / 0)
www.mtlowdown.com

Anyway, what shocked me most in their write-up of the debate was this:

Rehberg said one of the reasons he decided to run for Congress was because he had to sell-off parts of his family's ranch, "just to pay the down payment on the estate tax."

"You know what I am? I'm really good at managing an agricultural business. That's the kind of person you want back in Washington, D.C. Not one that can tell cutesy stories but may not be anywhere close to the truth," Rehberg said.

Wait, what?
First, if he's good at managing an agricultural business, why does he have to sell parts of his ranch?!
Second, he has a net worth of $33 million at least, with at least several million in non-ranch assets. Why isn't that enough to pay some estate taxes?  


[ Parent ]
Third, wasn't the reason that he was (0.00 / 0)
a career politician out of a job? He was Lt. Gov. and not a full-time rancher, after all.

[ Parent ]
I concur (0.00 / 0)
Early on 9 June, I suggested, on Flathead Memo Dot Com, that Gernant was hurt by (a) early voting, and (b) Gopher. I also noted in various comments that my conclusions were preliminary and subject to change as more data became available.

Rasmus looked at the early voting question and concluded that it did hurt Gernant. He also concluded that it wasn't a decisive factor. I concur with both conclusions.

On 14 June, I posted a dot graph displaying the percentages each candidate received in the state's 27 largest counties (90 percent of the registered voters). In a handful of counties -- Glacier, Roosevelt -- Gopher did very well, and Gernant very poorly, which suggests to me that Gopher benefited from identity voting among American Indians at the expense of Gernant. But that relationship was evident in only a few counties. This needs to be explored further as one of Gopher's goals was telling Democrats not to take the Indian vote for granted.

Rasmus, in his post above, offers some valid observations on that dot graph, and I'm going to be revising. Come back in a few days or drop me a note asking for a heads up when I do post a revision.

I think Rasmus has done an excellent  job.


Name recognition FTW (0.00 / 0)
That suggests that if Rankin had not been in the race, those people would probably have gone for Gernant over McDonald. BTW, 'American' (or, as we could also dub it, white trash) is the only variable of even some predictive value for the vote share of Sam Rankin- he did not well with them, McDonald in turn did. But apart from that I'm at a loss as to why Rankin did as well as he did- and that almost everywhere, from Missoula over Big Horn to Garfield.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...

DERP!!

Welcome to Montana, please enjoy your stay.  I hope all the "white trash" aren't too much of a bother.


Are they related? Of course I know who (0.00 / 0)
Jeannette Rankin is, but I didn't know they're related. I think name familiarity advantage is overrated, after all, the grand-son of Strom Thurmond got just 15% in the GOP primary in Strom's old Congressional seat on June 8. I would've thunk that the name rec advantage that Strom Junior enjoyed was greater than Sam Rankin's, after all, Strom Senior lived until 2000 and there is a REAL relationship, not just same name.

After all, the Adams' in this country don't do really well in electoral politics just because they happen to share a name with John Adams.  


[ Parent ]
And as for 'white trash' MT doesn't have too many of them. (0.00 / 0)
I guess MT is maybe ranked #30 or #35 among the states in terms of percentage of American ancestry self-identifiers. Still, that works out to about 10% of the population, and a significant voting bloc.
They would indeed bother me if I went to West Virginia, Kentucky or Arkansas, where they make up 30+% of the population. It's not coincidence that those states are home to most racists still living in the USA.  

[ Parent ]
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