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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Mark French and the myth of the crossover voter

by: Jay Stevens

Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 17:21:07 PM MST


The Mark French defeat letter is slowly making the rounds on the Intertubes, and re-reading it made me want to comment on a couple of his points...

For starters, it's pretty narcissistic to begin with when you claim you're the candidate who'd legislate according to Biblical principles - that is, you speak for God - so it isn't much of a surprise that French blames everyone but himself for his defeat: voter fraud, crossover votes, liberal conspiracies, etc & company. I guess God was busy on election day.

Whatever.

Still, this isn't the first time I saw crossover mentioned as a cause for Republican primary election results. I'm not sure what the basis for the accusation is - the only factual or statistical evidence supporting it is that the number of voters participating in the Democratic primary shrank in 2010 compared to 2008, and the number participating in the GOP primary rose. For example, in Yellowstone county, 19,218 votes for Democratic House candidates were cast in 2008 (pdf) as opposed to 8,925 in 2010; in contrast, 11,071 Yellowstone county votes were counted in the 2008 GOP House primary compared to 22,510 in 2010.

Of course, it was the Democratic primary that had all the pull in 2008, as the Democratic presidential nomination was still in play when Montanans headed to the polls that day. Which suggests that independents and Republicans crossed over to vote in the '08 Democratic primary - despite French's assertions that no "moral conservative" would so such a thing. And in 2010, voter enthusiasm greatly favored Republicans, which probably explains the reversed numbers in primaries this year. State voter turnout numbers support that theory, too, as conservative counties generally had higher turnout than liberal counties. Missoula - after posting very high turnout numbers in the 2006 and 2008 primary and general elections - posted an anemic and state-low 20.59 percent voter turnout.

And even if crossover accounted for the swinging election numbers, it probably didn't have any effect. It was Hillary Clinton, you remember, who Rush Limbaugh urged Republican voters to vote for in Democratic primaries...yet Obama won easily in Montana in the 2008 primary. And while John Driscoll won the Democratic nomination for House over Jim Hunt - an actual real, live candidate - Bob Kelleher's equally baffling victory for the GOP Senate nomination in a primary election no self-respecting Democratic voter would have participated in suggests there was something else at play other than malicious crossover voting.

The fact is that most people take their votes seriously. If they cross over, it's because they feel strongly about a particular race, and they do their best to fill in their ballots responsibly. The absolute and final proof of voters' good nature is Mark French himself. After all, if liberal voters crossed over to the Republican primary to maliciously wreak havoc in the Republican camp, it's the self-aggrandizing buffoon and extremist candidate they would have voted for as the much weaker opponent in the general election. If mean-spirited liberals had voted en masse in the Republican primary, Mark French would have won his party's nomination for Congress.

Jay Stevens :: Mark French and the myth of the crossover voter
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Mr Stevens (0.00 / 0)
Left in the West is an important site with good material, but there is a conflict of interest everyone knows about but refuses to discuss. Matt's organization Forward for Montana gets financial support from Mr. Baucus over the years, it is said.  Nobody is saying that Mr. Singer is acting on his conflict of interest. It is just that it's something that should have been disclosed during this debate, especially on a blog that prides itself on free and civil exchange of ideas.

The policy in question did not come up until a few posts jabbing at Max Baucus were posted by Cowgirls, along with some jabbing comments to it.  Then, all of a sudden, anonymity was a major problem that needed to be remedied.

Sincerely,
Kristie Kay


I have to say... (0.00 / 0)
...er...off topic? Not sure how this is relevant...and Singer's criticized Baucus quite a few times on this site. And the policy in question had nothing to do with cowgirl's jabs at Baucus.

I do have to say, though, that it seems strange a first-time commenter would come on to the site with info on Matt's funding to smear him in the context of a Baucus-Schweitzer catfight. Trust me. Our policy was NOT a salvo fired in party warfare. I'll leave that crap to those two and the hacks that support them despite their combined record of near insufferable mediocrity.


[ Parent ]
Ooops (0.00 / 0)
This post was meant for the other post, Jay's post on paranoia. Nevertheless, I will say my piece in response to what you have implied about me.  I am not a partisan between Baucus and Schweitzer, and I have posted on this site before--when Montana Cowgirl was kicked off. That's when I registered. But I have been a loyal reader. But since you have opened the door, Matt does not really criticize Baucus at all anymore. It seemed to abruptly stop a while back.

[ Parent ]
Fair enough (0.00 / 0)
Cowgirl was not "kicked off" the site. She and Yellowstone Kelly lost their front-page status. Cowgirl, of her own accord decided to start her own site to try something new. I suspect she'd been mulling it over for some time, given how quickly she put up her site.

Again, our new policy was NOT enacted because of any swipes at Baucus. After all, I posthere even after calling Baucus'version of the health care bill "a steaming dish of dog sh*t." Matt has never asked me to write anything, change or edit anything I've written, even when we disagree, as we did over hcr. I'm guessing every other diariest would say the same.


[ Parent ]
Ummm. what does that have to do with (0.00 / 0)
The article in question? And what is the conflict of interest you are refering to?

It is no secret that Matt works for Forward for Montana and never has been. I am also sure that that organization gets funds from a lot of people. I guess you could say that Matt benefits but it is a stretch and to imply that his website (actually a community website now) is "biased" or "compromised" by his association is ludicris (sp?).

I don't always agree with Matt as I am somewhat more conservative than he is but I have met the man and respect him a great deal. He is one of the few reasons I continue to come back to this sight. While other posters have taken to inane and silly attacks on "the enemy", Matt continues to post relivent and usually accurate analysis and information.

Nuff said - back to the Wingnut French


As far as the article is concerned (0.00 / 0)
I don't see crossover voting as a "Myth" and it certainly has it's place in Montana Politics. When some races in this state can be decided by a few votes, crossover voting can change the makeup of a race during the primary.

It doesn't take much of a "Way back" machine to remember the threats made by a certain Right leaning voter (cough, Eric, cough) to generate as many votes for Morrison as he could in the 2008 Senate race. At the time, Morrison was under attack for less than savory activities and was unlikely to generate the momentum to defeat Conman Burns in the General Election. Was thier Crossover? Of course there was. In fact, some would say, I was a crossover voter since I usually vote in the Republican Primary.

I guess my point is that Crossover voting is a tool used in states where you don't have to declare affiliation and in Montana, it can have some effect on the outcome.

As far as French is concerned..

French is a Wingnut so unappealing even those of us with a more conservative bent can't stand him. He lost because no one wanted him. End of story.


I don't doubt... (0.00 / 0)
...that some crossover happens, I just don't see much effect. Did Sales lose his primary because of crossover? I'm thinking no: I mean, can you think of anyone who's said more stupid things while serving in office, or who has had such unanimity of opposition from conservatives? And how much effect does crying foul over crossover votes cause more conservatives to vote in primaries?

Frankly, I see most of the accusations of crossover affecting primaries coming from extremists who are unwilling or unable to admit they not generally liked by Republican voters.

Until some really weird election result happens in the context of an organized push of crossover voters, color me doubtful.


[ Parent ]
Crossover votes - (0.00 / 0)

I've studied the results of this last primary. Here's what I've learned;

(1) There were not a lot of interesting races in the Dem primary, so the voters simply picked a ballot that interested them.

(2) The Dems stayed home. Thank you Obama.

(3) The huge amount of mail-in ballots effectively ended campaigns in some precincts by May 15th.

Mark French lost simply because he doesn't have the support that Denny has. Mark was in Billings and I had a few conversations with him, he's a decent man, and I hope he stays involved in politics. This was a case of a first-tier candidate against a second-tier candidate.


Unless Eric is a mind reader.... (0.00 / 0)
Eric has no more an idea why French lost than anyone else. I wouldn't have voted for him because he represents the batsh@# crazy wingnut side of the Republican House. I would like to think that most conservatives are smarter than that.

Eric does bring up a point that should be emphasized, though. Mail In/Absentee ballots have significantly changed elections in Montana. Many elections were decided long before people like me entered the polling booths at our local polling places. Further, this should significantly change how a person goes about campaigning for an office. The advantage an incumbant has is increased by this change and it becomes far more important for first time candidates to meet thier prospective constituants - and early - rather than wait to the last minute.


[ Parent ]
You don't need to be a mindreader - (0.00 / 0)

Just attend events, and talk to everybody.

Mark French was promoted by people I respect, but I didn't vote for him. I'll give you my reasons for that;

(1) Our economy here is timber, mining, drilling, tourism, and agriculture. Mark was too 'green' for me.

(2) Unless Denny gets into a major scandal of some type he'll trounce McDonald 61% to 39% or worse. Why would we give up on an sure-winner?


[ Parent ]
There's more here (0.00 / 0)
There's more going on here than just French being quite obviously wrong about the single point of crossover voting.  As to that simple point, it's hard to tell really what French is complaining about.  As one of those dreadfully infamous crossover voters, I know quite a few more here in the Gallatin.  In general, we didn't vote for French thinking him the weaker candidate.  We voted for Otjen thinking her, idunno, sane?  And she still only got 6% of the vote statewide.  Crossover voting isn't the issue; it's just a plank of a larger conspiracy theory, one that French is not alone in holding.  "Crossover voting" is simply one more power that the monsters have, when one is monster building.

I stand by my earlier comment on French's letter.  The focus shouldn't be the specifics of how he's wrong, but rather the movement he sees himself as a leader of.  That's where the troubling things lay.  Now, considering that French only got 22% of the vote, well short of the 27% national benchmark for crazy, it would be easy to dismiss his ramblings and go on our merry.  Considering that we're the only state to have elected a (Christian) Constitutionalist to state office, Rick Jore, I think French bears a great deal of watching in the future.


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