Tell me sweet little lies

Astute post, Jay (0.00 / 0)

You nail the motives of the right and left perfectly.  I suppose the way the left can succeed is to see politics more as a game and learn how to win at it more regularly.

The problem with the left, I think, is that they're too quick to make the ideal the enemy of the good.  When a candidate isn't perfect for them, they won't support him or her.

This is happening in the congressional race.  A lot of Democrats, especially in Missoula, are still pissed about McDonald beating Gernant (whom they saw as an ideal candidate).  So they're indifferent to McDonald and ready to roll over and let Rehberg walk away with the election.

McDonald doesn't deserve the cold shoulder he's getting from the Missoula left.  He's solid on the issues they care about and Rehberg, who joined Michele Bachmann's Tea Party Caucus in July, is swinging so far to the right that he is actually dangerous.

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by: Turner @ Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 19:05:47 PM UTC

blaming the media gets us nowhere jay (0.00 / 0)

david sirota et al has been screaming bloody murder for almost two years about the bland counterattacks which emanate from the obama administration that are sent out to do battle against these outrageous lies.

it is frustrating to many of us while we are battling the far right to  watch a nice courteous touch football team of geeks and accountants suit up to meet the monsters of the midway every day in the mainstream press.

i admit it is frustrating that mainstream media doesn't get it but who's fault is that? Gibbs? emanual? obama?

the press is the referee in this country. if you want to win your team has to be willing to break some bones to do it. some of the coaches need to either quit or fundamentally change the way they attack the right from now on. because a defense - even the best defense cannot survive long without an offense. and only crybabyies blame the referees. time to quit being crybabies and suit up.

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by: problembear @ Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 20:51:58 PM UTC

Press as referee? (0.00 / 0)

No sir.  They are very much in the game and they know it.  When the White House pushed back against the "Obama is Muslim" smear, CNN portrayed the White House as 'Whiny'.  Wolf Blitzer stopped short of saying as much.  When Obama talked about kicking some BP ass, the press dutifully followed the FOX news cycle and considered if we as a nation want such an uncouth (uppity) potty mouth as President.  The media is every bit as much to fault as the White House.

One might (and I would argue should) blame Senators.  Why does the White House continue to draw fire for the failings of Ben Nelson's colleagues to kick him in his sorry sack?  Why on Earth does Joe LIEberman still have a committee chair?  Why does every Blue Dog in the Senate (I'm looking at you, Baucus) blame the White House for urging action from the majority party when they are the ones who started all of this "bipartisan" bullshit in the first place?  Senate Dems have, for the most part, thrown their House counterparts under the bus, and then backed it up several times.  Rule # 2 - Double Tap.

And then there are the failings of the Professional Left.  They get all butthurt when Gibbs calls them out, but Gibbs was correct.  They blame the White House for things they have control over, or think they do.  Consider this piece by Matt Taibbi.  Everyone knows that the Professional Right is the problem.  That would be the very media that you don't want Jay to blame.  And the Professional Left dutifully blames the White House for not fighting back against the P Right.  That isn't the WH job.  It's Jane Hamsher's, Kieth Olbermann's, Matt Yglasius' and David Sirota's.  What have they done to actually 'fight back'?  They've pointed to lies so entrenched and said meekly, 'uh folks, that's a lie'.  (Isn't that Media Matters' job?)  And then they have howled at the betrayer in chief from the safety of being on the same damned side because he didn't wizard up a defense of the people that they themselves get paid to provide.  Has anyone organized a boycott of FOX news advertisers?  No.  Has the Professional Left organized a 'beer summit' with Obama?  No. Has the Professional Left agreed to work with the Tea Party against Obama's initiatives?  Yes.  Yes they have, and then wonder why the disdain from the White House.

I am not blanket defending Obama here.  I am very very disappointed in the action and inaction from the White House.  But that's only been 1 and a half years.  I've been disappointed with action and (mostly) inaction from 'the left' for a whole lot longer than that.  Yet I still claim membership among the left.  To use pbear's analogy, you might be disappointed with the coach's plan, or your teammate's lack of effort, but you still give it your all.  That's all you can really control.  Let's us just not kid ourselves that our corporate sponsors (the media) don't have a stake in the outcome, or a biased roll to play in the game.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 21:49:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wulfgar is spot on! (0.00 / 0)

The Dems keep acting like pouting pantywaists, who want the big bad right to stop all this petty bickering.  The Dems don't want to put on the gloves and duke it out with anybody, let alone the biased press, and the radical right.

I am sorely disappointed in the Obama administration's inability to exert and express open criticism against those who so richly deserve it, including CNN, MSNBC, Olbermann, etc.  It's not just Limbaugh and that idiot charlatan, Glenn Beck, but it is also the "lame stream" press.

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by: Gypsy @ Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 22:19:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

this upcoming fall election is a road game (0.00 / 0)

i agree the refs are biased. all the more reason to take it to them with everything you've got.

but as far as the progressive left goes the dog always acts like the master. that master (administration) better grow some teeth soon and show those right wing beta's who is alpha, instead of cringing. on the gridiron of politics, nobody gives you respect. you earn it.

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by: problembear @ Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 22:39:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I just don;'t see a fundamental difference (0.00 / 0)

Between the extremism of the right and the "Head in the sand" attitude of the left. They are both delusional and, if not outright lies, at the very least, misrepresentations.

The Dems promised that if we elected a Dem Congress and a Dem President, they could fix certain things - first and foremost, Health Care.

For most of us little people, Health Care Costs have gone UP due to the Corporate handout passed by the Dems.

The Dems promised a hardline on the Corporate handouts that were bankrupting the Country. Instead, they gave us more handouts (called a Stimulus package), Bailouts of the very people that got us in the mess (while allowing multimillion dollar bonuses to be paid to the people in charge of those being bailed out), and no end in sight for either the recession or unemployment.

Now I am not stupid, I realise that it will take time to even begin to fix the financial mess this country is in, but I certainly don;t see the will, the effort or even the potential of these people we elected to accomplish any of it. The Corporate handout taht was the Health Care Reform shot any credibility these people had.

You can blaim the extremists like Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and Rush Limberger, or you can blame the Tea Party people all you want. Hell, you are blaming the rheteric in this post, but until you realise that the "moderates" you refer to are actually more concerned about the Democrats lack of any kind of commitment, you will continue to go down the path you are now. We are disappointed, and no amount of finger pointing at Bush, the Tea Party or Limberger is going to change that.

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by: moorcatavalon @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:10:30 AM UTC

agreed (0.00 / 0)

and i long ago argued forcefully for real change we can believe in. we didn't get it. so we don't believe. i get that.

but i don't necessarily have to believe in democrats to see that beckians and rushians taking over this country would be a colossal nightmare which would make george bush and cheney's train wreck look like success. i guess i am talking about being a linebacker here. i can't score but i sure as hell want to at least hold the line on things so they don't get worse.

there is corruption on both sides, but the tea party is financially backed by billionaires and multinational corporations that have no compunction about enslaving american workers and bankrupting america just as long as they can make a buck. there is corruption and then there is willfully ignorant lying greed and depravity.

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by: problembear @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:46:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Are you suggesting that we embrace Limberger (0.00 / 0)

Any more than we are embracing the "New Change"? Not a chance.

This is just my opinion, so take it for what it is worth. 35-40% of voters will vote Republican regardless of who runs. 35-40% will vote Democrat regardless who runs. That leaves 20-30% who actually decide who will win the election. These are certainly not all moderates either - some are single issue voters, some are "third" party voters etc. The point is, these people are no more impressed with Limberger and the Tea Baggers than they are with the Obama Apologists. Most of us will hold our noses when we vote because no one is proposing an answer (or even a direction) we can believe in anymore.

From my side of the screen, much of what the Tea Baggers are saying is important stuff - Out of control National Debt, Government Intrusion into our personal lives, A BROKEN Health Care Reform Bill... This isn't magic or smoke and mirrors. The direction the Tea Baggers want to go with this stuff may be scary but they have nailed those three problems pretty well.

We know that Obama was born in the US. We are not birthers. Most of the people who are, wouldn't vote Democrat if you lowered them slowly in boiling oil. Using these looney toons as a paint brush for those of us unhappy about the "New Change" will only drive us away. I will vote for the person I feel will do the better job and unless Obama gets off his backside and shows that he can do SOMETHING, it won't be him. I am tired of empty promises while my families money and retirement go swirling away down the toilet.

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by: moorcatavalon @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 05:22:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

What crap! (0.00 / 0)

The tea-baggers have "nailed" nothing.

I wrote a detailed response to Moorcat's defense of their idiocy, but (stupid me) I deleted it while trying to edit the preview window.  And I've got to go somewhere this morning and can't get back to it.

Maybe someone else will explain to Moorcat what should be obvious: intellectually, the tea-baggers have nada. Their children in the bodies of old white people.

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by: Turner @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 15:22:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I mean (0.00 / 0)

"They're children in the bodies of old people."

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by: Turner @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 15:23:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

There's a problem with your math, bro. (0.00 / 0)

Let me fix this for you:

35-40% of voters will vote Republican regardless of who runs, if they vote. 35-40% will vote Democrat regardless who runs, if they vote. That leaves 20-30% who actually decide who will win the election, if they vote.

See, that's the problem.  The crazy are wicked motivated, and the rest of us are 'holding our noses'.  In truth, I think your percentage of those who invariably vote Democratic is too high, and those who invariably vote Republicant is too low.  And you forgot an important segment of the independents.  Those who will vote for whoever the media, such as it is, convinces them will win.  Let's call them "the Water-cooler" voters.  They have the advantage of 'never having to be wrong' in conversation.  That's where Beck and Limbaugh come in.  TeaBagging isn't about principles; it's about belonging to a group that's "right".  These are the same people who 2 to 4 years ago voted the Republicants out of power, and in 2 to 4 years have completely forgotten why.  They've forgotten why because the media giants give them a reasonable excuse to forget, funded by the Koch brothers, Dick Armey and Rupert Murdoch.

From my side of the screen, much of what the Tea Baggers are saying is important stuff - Out of control National Debt, Government Intrusion into our personal lives, A BROKEN Health Care Reform Bill... This isn't magic or smoke and mirrors. The direction the Tea Baggers want to go with this stuff may be scary but they have nailed those three problems pretty well.

Sorry, man, but that doesn't make sense.  Recognizing a problem is part of the solution, and if they want to go in scary directions, then they haven't recognized the problem.  That's like saying that you've got water filling your basement and your solution is to re-roof the house.  Yes, they are concerned about out-of-control debt, but not the military spending, unfunded mandates like NCLB or tax cuts for the rich which have brought us there.  Yes, they are concerned about government intrusion, unless the government is checking citizen status on every dusky person, or rooting out the gay agenda, or demanding birth certificates in triplicate from the socialist muslim Black Panther America Hater in the White House, or that some ragheads want to build a FUCK_YOU Mosque statue of Osama Bin Laden squarely where WTC1 used to stand, or anywhere on the continent that WTC1 used to stand.  Yes, they are concerned about 'OBAMACARE" with it's socialist statutes forcing people to buy insurance that most of the teabaggers already have provided by employers or get from the 300 million tits of the Social Security Babylon Cow, which will break us, BREAK US I tell you!  (For the record, try an outsider's take on that BROKEN health care bill.)  In short, yes, the Tea Party really is a helluva lot of smoke and mirrors, and Sturm und Drang, weeping, wailing, rending of garments and gnashing of teeth.  It's pretty much orchestrated bullshit.

I will vote for the person I feel will do the better job and unless Obama gets off his backside and shows that he can do SOMETHING, it won't be him.

Dude, we kinda got some issues here.  First, Obama isn't running against Debby Barrett.  He isn't running in this election at all.  But that complete teabagger loon Mike Comstock is running against Barack Obama.  So are almost every single TeaBagger favored candidate in America.  And what they are running against is an illusion.  What has the Tea Party given America?  Nothing.  What have the Democrats and Obama given America?  Check it out. Yep, times are tough.  But the PeeParty won't help.  They can't.  All they can do is help elect Republicants, and we've seen how well they govern.  Which is to say, the "cure" is worse than the disease.

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by: Rob Kailey @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 22:22:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My point wasn't in "support" of the Tea Baggers - (0.00 / 0)

It was merely that I agree with some of the things they are saying are problems. I don't see the Tea Bag party as anything more than a disorganized group of people pulling in 30 different directions with no disernable benefit. In fact I have said as much many times.

What I do believe is that they are "attractive" to many people because they are saying the things they are saying. Many bloggers are trying to scare people away from the Tea Baggers by pointing out things like MT Cowgirl's post on the Homophobic semi leader of a local Tea Bag group but it won't reach everyone and it certainly won't reach most of the target audience of the Tea Bag movement.

Turner's responce to me is a perfect example of over-reaction that is costing the dems votes. He is well aware that I have supported Democratic Candidates before - in fact we have worked side by side the Dillon Democratic Office to get one elected. Maker forgive that even mention the words "Tea Bagger" in a post, though. He responds as if I am scum of the earth, uneducated, and must be beat down for even mentioning thier evil name. This will not win Dems votes.

If the Dems (or the Republicans) want to win votes, they need to start approaching voters in a rational, non confrontation manner. Between the Tea baggers and the Left nutjobs, most of us are tired of the constant attacks and the partisan BS.

I am not going to vote the Tea Bagger party but I am certainly not going to support a candidate simply because they are not a Tea Bagger. I am tired of voting for stuffed shirts that do nothing but make my life worse by being in office.  

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by: moorcatavalon @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 23:52:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're right. I got carried away. (0.00 / 0)

Teabaggers make me so angry that I can't tolerate seeing them treated halfway seriously, except as a threat to our republic.

Sorry.

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by: Turner @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:05:28 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

as an independent (0.00 / 0)

i totally agree. i am tired of sitting on the bench and watching these guys go three and punt on hope and change that regular working people dearly needed.

but when the other team takes the ball and starts driving in my house i get off the bench, put the helmet on and stop them because things can get a lot worse than even bush/cheney if they take control of the house. and i couldn't live with myself if i didn't give my all.

just because we are playing on a team of losers doesn't mean we don't play up to our potential. i don't care what they do to fail me, i care what i do to win.

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by: problembear @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:08:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

i hear ya moorcat (0.00 / 0)

and i agree that democrats have let us all down. but i don't think that the american public is dumb enough to fall for the obvious lies of the far right and the traitorous party of no. i still am too angry about bush to ever forget which is worse.

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by: problembear @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 23:07:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Arise (0.00 / 0)

The Tea Party has done liberals a big favor. They have swept away the veil and exposed the lie which is politics in America. If you have any guts you will use them to once and for all sweep away a planet killing system ( "democratic" capitalism) and replace it with something just and sustainable. They are a tool. Koch Brothers for President!

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by: troutsky @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 13:48:31 PM UTC

Civil war! (0.00 / 0)

Very Entertaining - it's almost as good as watching the Dem house members distancing themselves from Pelosi/Obama.

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by: Eric Coobs @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 15:47:20 PM UTC

Eric, What does it tell you about your party, (0.00 / 0)

When people are expressing disappointment with the Dems but still holding thier nose and voting for them? What Candidates does your party offer that are any better? (Rhetorical question, BTW). You want to get the votes to take back the House or the Senate? Get some Candidates that will actually do a better job than the fail you offer now. Rehberg? That is the best you can do?

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by: moorcatavalon @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 00:45:22 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well - (0.00 / 0)

Say what you want about Denny - IMO he's done a fantastic job, and the GOP is united behind him.

Write my prediction on the wall: Denny 61-39 over McDonald.

Since you asked for it, I'll tell you more;

In Montana, the GOP takes both house of the legislature. Not veto-proof numbers, but working majorities.

GOP takes the US House by big numbers.

GOP takes the Senate with 2 seats to spare.

I didn't think so until I looked through Dick Morris' analysis, and I agree with his premise.

Check it out yourself;

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog...

Obama hasn't been a Great Uniter, Obama/Reid/Pelosi have torn their own party to shreds.

I've been very silent this election season, because with mail-in ballots going out in a month, I'm happy with the way things are going - they could not be improved on.

The only reason I come over here and break up the liberal circle-jerk is out of habit - LOL.

But, rest assured, when it comes time to toss out Tester and Obama I'll be back in full swing.  

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by: Eric Coobs @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 02:03:27 AM UTC

good (0.00 / 0)

overconfidence makes upset all the more enjoyable. keep it up eric.  

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by: problembear @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:20:35 AM UTC

OK (0.00 / 0)

Please tell me about this 'upset' -

It'll look good with the "Why Lindeen will win" posts I saved from this blog -  

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by: Eric Coobs @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 15:15:04 PM UTC

i never telegraph my plays to the offense eric (0.00 / 0)

linebackers react to the ball. the more complacent the offense, the easier it is to disrupt the play.

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by: problembear @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 19:44:04 PM UTC

No Guts? (0.00 / 0)

C'mon - nut up - if you look at the last 30 posts there might be a dozen people who actually comment here - your 'predictions' would look really good in my archive.

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by: Eric Coobs @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 20:28:23 PM UTC

you're nuts enough for both of us eric (0.00 / 0)

we get about 650 or so reads a day here. most people don't comment on blogs. especially when they encounter aggressive individuals like yourself eric, but i am always suited up and ready to hit you as soon as you cross the line here.  

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by: problembear @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 21:02:07 PM UTC

sorry about that last one matt and jay (0.00 / 0)

when i was referring to tackling eric here i meant 4 & 20. sometimes i forget which blog i am commenting on.

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by: problembear @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 21:30:14 PM UTC