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User Blox 4
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Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
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If You Haven't Seen This
by: Rob Kailey - Apr 28
5 Comments
Impeach the President?
by: Rob Kailey - Mar 16
15 Comments
It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

If you won't risk your life, you don't "support" the war

by: Jay Stevens

Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 08:00:30 AM MST


So...when I wrote that post the other day on reinstating the draft, my argument that national and universal service (with a civil service option, preferably) would cause Americans to pause before sending troops to war was only a portion of my unease with an all-volunteer army. There's also something...disquieting...about having a professional military detached from civilian life. It's not that I think they'd turn on us, as Larry K brought up - at least not as long as conditions are stable in our body politic - but...well...it's just too easy to use the army for missions that aren't necessarily in our nation's best interest.

Let me explain by pulling up this quote by John Bolton on why he joined the National Guard during Vietnam - a war he ostensibly supported: "I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy."

Bolton obviously misses the point. If you're not willing to lay down your life in a war you "support," you don't actually "support" the war.

You know the rest of the story: John Bolton, along with a number of other top administration officials (Bush and Cheney, to name two others) with a similar military background, planned and organized the invasion of Iraq based on manufactured intelligence reports to satisfy intellectual theories about American power abroad - much in the same way a clutch of basement-dwelling, coke-and-pizza-swilling D&D-obsessed pubescent geeks would.

And they could get away with it because we have a professional military to do the mission.

Of course, The Polish Wolf has a point:

The draft didn't keep us from trying to occupy Vietnam and Korea, it only limited our options once we were there.  In the time we were in those two places, we ended up killing a hell of a lot more innocent people than we've killed in Afghanistan, and suffering many more casualties, despite being there less time, because the military we had then (no offense to any one who served then) was not the quality that can be achieved with a professional, volunteer army.

Yeah, well, I imagine casualties would be higher in Iraq if we were fighting the Chinese army, but his point about the draft not stopping Korea or Vietnam is absolutely true.

Still, there's a disconnect here: our leaders intervene militarily to maintain an American empire its people don't want to sacrifice for, but still assume as their birthright. There are two options: give up the empire and face the wrath of Americans, or pay someone else to fight for them and shield them as best you can from the unpleasantness that follows. The dichotomy was made evident in Korea and Vietnam, and the unrest that followed those wars drove our government to choose the latter option.

A draft might force the burden of American empire directly onto the shoulders of whose burden it is - the American people's - and might cause us to reconsider. Of course, too many folks have a lot of money invested in American empire...

Jay Stevens :: If you won't risk your life, you don't "support" the war
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All empires fall (0.00 / 0)
the only questions are how and when...

Better to begin the process of dismantling ours, instead of figuring out ways to maintain it by forcing the populace into servitude.

I had to take part in the draft lottery of the early 70's. And I wasn't willing to go to what I believed was an unjust war if my number had been called. One might pin the unrest of the 60's and early 70's partially upon the unpopularity of the draft--unpopular because millions of people were protesting against the war.

But I think bringing back the draft as a way to force reconsideration of our empire as not necessarily a good way to get there. The unintended social consequences could be quite severe--judging by how the anti-war protests and draft dodging from 40 years ago still gets played out today.

But I think there will be a showdown over our empire. And it could likely occur between China and ourselves, and get played out as we battle for South American resources. Or it could be a massive trade war. A war over oil--just like how our war with Japan was ignited. It could be an elective WWIII, as there are wacky politicians in our country who may believe the only way out of a huge recession is another massive war.

You know what they say about history and being doomed and all. The question is do our leaders believe they can defeat the march of history and continue american hegemony? Or are they still deluding themselves into believing we are not empire builders?


Cheney had NO "military history." (0.00 / 0)
At least John Bolton joined the National Guard and actually put in his time there. G.W. Bush, on the other hand, was said to be in the National Guard in a state that had no record of him ever attending their state's National Guard.  Guess his daddy got him an invisible "deferment."

Cheney survived military wars and other military clashes by getting 5 or more deferments.

John McCain spent 5 & 1/2 years in a prisoner of war camp, and proclaims himself to be an expert on military affairs because of that solitary confinement experience.  However, McCain came in near the bottom of his Naval Academy class, crashed 3 jets worth millions each, by being a smartass pilot.  The last crash was on the deck of a naval transport ship.  Fire enveloped the topdeck, and McCain fled below decks and let his commrads fight the fire and suffer burns.

What a bunch of "brave" and "knowledgeable" military folks these people are.


One thing the draft did, I believe, (0.00 / 0)
was shorten our engagement in Vietnam, which lessened the loss of life on both sides.  Had we an all volunteer or "professional" army at that time, there would not have been the same level of dissent at home.  

It might backfire (0.00 / 0)
I would point out that (numerically) more people protested the war in Iraq than protested the war in Vietnam.  My cynical self tells me that protests are completely ineffectual.  Counting on a draft to bring increased protests (without focusing on the votes driven by such) won't work any better than it really did in the over 5 years it took to stop our little party in SE Asia.

In fact, all Americans do already support the War on Terror because we're paying for it willingly or not.  And the ones who write the checks on our money have a vested interest in looking good while doing so.  Their best argument and camouflage is that "we must support the troops".  That sentiment actually increases with a draft.  Somebody can be dead set against the war, but still willing to pay for the people who fight it, because a cousin, or a friend or the neighbor's boy is "over there".

It's a matter of emotional investment having the desired effect on politically motivated spending.  We've elevated our soldiers to the level of being automatic heroes.  That didn't come from the era of volunteer soldiers (which can actually be seen as an era of state-funded mercenaries.)  It came from the era of the draft, when no one wanted to have to look at their neighbor and say, "I'm tired of paying for this fiasco, and if that means your boy Bobby gets no more of my money, well tough."


I disagree, Wulfgar! (0.00 / 0)
In Jay's first post on this subject, he quotes Secretary of Defense Robert Gates:

" ... fewer and fewer Americans know someone with military experience in their family or their social circles ... "

It's easier to ignore a war when you don't know anyone serving in it.

And your assertion "that (numerically) more people protested  the war in Iraq than protested the war in Vietnam."  Where did you get that stat?  (Not to mention that the Vietnam War protests were a lot rowdier.)  Hell, the nation's unrest over Vietnam kept LBJ from seeking a second term.  


[ Parent ]
While Wulfgar is more than capable of making a reply, (0.00 / 0)
There are a few things I would say to this.

1) Gate's statement was completely subjective and unsubstanciated. Military services is alive and well and I highly doubt that Gate's statement is correct.

2) Shear numbers of people who have/do protest the war in Iraq would side with Wulfgar's statement. We are a much larger country now and that might account for the change in numbers (I would be curious to see the percentages rather than the raw data). That said, the nation is a vastly different place now. It is impossible to equate the war protests in the 60's to the current ones. 9-11 saw to that.

3) Those of us that have served in the military are sick and tired of being used at political pawns in the never ending struggle to get votes. In the vietnam era, servicemen were not "heros to be recognised". They were reviled by a large segment of the population. Hell, even in the late 70's you could still see signs in the yards of Norfork Virginia that said "Sailors and Dogs, Keep off the Grass". Today, veterans are used to promote policies by both sides of the political spectrum like we are some kind of special breed of people. Bullshit. We are simply people that agreed to do a job (for as many reasons at there are people who served). We are not special and quit trying to put us on pedistals. It grows tiring.


[ Parent ]
as a Diasabled Combat Infantry DRAFTED Veteran (0.00 / 0)

 i can safely say your suggestion to initiate this philistine / Hitler youth / Draft is morally and constitutionally corrupt in every way.
 The 2nd Amendment does not provide for a Professional Army. The innumerable inhumane acts committed by Professional US Soldiers is clear evidence of the Professional Army/Israeli and US. SEE Wikileaks. The Mai Lai's of Viet Nam and Korea were instigated by Professional Soldiers.

 Using the contemptible and egregious instrument of the DRAFT to control our invasions is moronic and barbaric. It amounts to Economic Conscription (as if the entire US Army was not already the last best bet).
 If you can't elect a Govt that will carry on without incessant illegal invasions then they deserve to be conquered. America's resilience is thin - they want to live with their heads in the couch ... that couch is Capitalism and it will War these couch potatoes into cannon fodder. And the bottom line is not Democracy and Justice but $$$.

  The Draftee has no clue why you want him/her to die. Always consider volunteering yourself before expecting others to carry your lunacy to fruition.  


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