Event Calendar
May 2012
(view month)
S M T W R F S
* * 01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31 * *
<< (add event) >>


User Blox 4
- Put stuff here

Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
1 Comments
If You Haven't Seen This
by: Rob Kailey - Apr 28
5 Comments
Impeach the President?
by: Rob Kailey - Mar 16
15 Comments
It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
7 Comments

Search




Advanced Search


Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

The sound of one hand wringing

by: Jay Stevens

Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 07:50:31 AM MST


Via Ezra Klein, here's Ross Douthat explaining why Republican politicians are so eager to deny global warming - the only conservative party to do so in the industrialized West:

What's interesting, though, is that if you look at public opinion on climate change, the U.S. isn't actually that much of an outlier among the wealthier Western nations. In a 2007-2008 Gallup survey on global views of climate change, for instance, just 49 percent of American told pollsters that human beings are responsible for global warming. But the same figure for Britain (where Rush Limbaugh has relatively few listeners, I believe) was 48 percent, and belief in human-caused climate change was only slightly higher across northern Europe: 52 percent in the Czech Republic, 59 percent in Germany, 49 percent in Denmark, 51 percent in Austria, just 44 percent in the Netherlands, with highs of 63 percent in France and 64 percent in Sweden. (Doubts about anthropogenic global warming are considerably rarer, the study found, in southern Europe, Latin America and the wealthier countries of Asia.)

There's a reasonably large Western European constituency, in other words, for some sort of climate change skepticism. (And probably a growing one: In Britain, at least, as in the United States, the economic slump has dampened public enthusiasm for anti-emissions regulation.) But the politicians haven't been responding. Instead, Europe's political class, left and right alike, has worked to marginalize a position that it considers intellectually disreputable, even as the American G.O.P. has exploited that same position to win votes.

That is, the Republican party is using climate change skepticism for political gain, while their political peers in Europe eschew the quick fix and are contributing solutions to "the 21st century's biggest foreign-policy challenge," as Britain's Foreign Secretary and Conservative party leader William Hague said. "An effective response to climate change underpins our security and prosperity."

It's amazing how this political opportunism has morphed into a kind of belief. Take Dave Budge's sophist argument against the entirety of climate science: apparently the body's "oligopolistic nature" is "reinforc{ing} one approach rather than foster{ing} an environment in which a variety of approaches can flourish." Yet there's no evidence offered that climate science has indeed narrowed its approach. In reality, the opposite is true. Competing theories to the origin of climate change are investigated and tested - after all, that's what science is all about. And here's all you need to know: there exists no competing and scientifically valid theory to dispute the consensus that the climate is warming beyond the range of natural trends and that the major cause is rising levels of CO2. Where there is debate is in how quickly the climate will change and to what extent, how the changing climate will manifest itself, and the extent of the negative impacts to human health it will have.

Budge, as an economically-minded kind of guy, came to his conclusion in observing that economic modeling failed to correctly predict the current financial crises - therefore, he reasons, climate modeling couldn't possibly be accurate either, the data is too complex. But the climate - unlike economics - is a deterministic system. Actions always have the same results. If you turn down the sun, it gets cooler. If a surface is white, it's cooler. If you increase the presence of a greenhouse gas in the atmosphere - CO2, water vapor, or methane, say - it gets hotter. Accuracy in modeling is easier to achieve. On the other hand, as a human institution the economy is not deterministic. Sure, there are trends, but human free will prevents predictions for the economy (similar to history, say) to be anything other than guesswork. In fact, you could argue that economic theories themselves influence the economy. It's for that reason that economics is inherently political - unlike science.

Maybe that's why so many conservatives have rushed to denialist positions in the wake of their favored party's exploitation of climate change doubt: they come at the issue, not as scientists, but as political and economic ideologues. I suspect the reason why many dislike the findings of climate science is that the free market is inadequate on its own to react to the problem climate change poses. Climate change demands a state-led response that poses great economic risk. No wonder they've taken to quivering hand-wringing...

Still, market forces are incredibly useful as a means of innovation. It's too bad our nation's conservatives have abandoned our generation's greatest challenge.

Jay Stevens :: The sound of one hand wringing
Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Bookmark and Share
Print Friendly View Send As Email

uh humm (0.00 / 0)
What I said is that the complex data makes climate science very difficult.  I never said it "couldn't possibly be accurate..."  

Those forecasts may be accurate but people who know a great deal about quantitative analysis know the problems in complex modeling.

So, I remain agnostic on climate change but I'm very skeptical about the scientific community's ability to build a predictive model.  


and for accuracy... (0.00 / 0)
Modeling has nothing to do with determining if the planet's warming at an unnatural rate, or if CO2 is responsible. The modeling I assume you're talking about is being used to predict outcomes of CO2 warming...

[ Parent ]
If I were to take this statement: (0.00 / 0)
"So, I remain agnostic on climate change but I'm very skeptical about the scientific community's ability to build a predictive model.  "

And turn it on its head:

"So, I remain agnostic on the free market but I'm very skeptical about the economic community's ability to build a predictive model."

Because, well if complex data makes modeling climate change very difficult, then obviously it must mean that modeling the free market is very difficult, too. So the takeaway I get from my little thought excercise is this:

"Those forecasts [about the outcome of a shift to a more free-market oriented economy] may be accurate but people who know a great deal about quantitative analysis know the problems in complex modeling."

Or to put it a bit more succinctly, by using Budge's logic:

I remain agnostic about the long term outcome of the free market economics, but I'm skeptical about the [free market] economic community's ability to build a predictive model to support their theories.

It is easy to twist up words and create analogies that may, or may not, work. And I will leave this little play with the following:

"And, sure as the day is long, dogmatists (yes, that means you, Dave) will discredit any observations contrary to conventional wisdom within the discipline.  One can only hope that more serious people will come together to form a more ecumenical cohort of both funding sources and economists."


[ Parent ]
So I can take that you are agnostic (0.00 / 0)
about the free market system, then?

[ Parent ]
Yes, you can... (0.00 / 0)
... at least as it pertains to the long term.  Remember that the father of "Creative Destruction", Joseph Schumpeter, predicted the ultimate undoing of free market capitalism. I'm inclined to agree with him. All I can tell you is that, for now, it looks like the best way to allocate scarce resources.

What I really defer to is what F.A. Hayek said:

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."


[ Parent ]
Unstoppable Global Warming (0.00 / 0)

The Earth IS warming - it's on a 1500 year cycle that we cannot stop, or change signifigantly. That's what ended the last Ice Age.

There's a pretty good book  - "Unstoppable Global Warming"
by Singer/Avery.

Where the Dems and the left got into trouble was when they teamed up with the environmentalists to create a religion around Global Warming, with Al Gore as it's High Priest.
That religion, and all it's dire predictions has been proven to be a hoax by climatologists all around the world.


So if the you agree the earth is warming (0.00 / 0)
What are you willing to do to mitigate the impacts of that warming?

Because, whether global warming is anthropogenic (sorry--its a big word I know, it means "human caused") or not, the effects are going to be the same. Major shifts in local climate will disrupt the ability to grow crops and access clean water. Weather events will impact large populations with drought, flood, wind and fire. These disruptions will cause major shifts in populations, and political upheaval. Battles over boundaries.

In short, if you believe the earth is warming you have the choice to either get to work mitigating its impacts, or you can play ostrich. Which, as we have already seen has devastating impacts, say on places like New Orleans, Pakistan, central Russia, Bangladesh...


[ Parent ]
Eric Coobs: The Earth IS Flat--'cuz I said so, that's why!!!!! (0.00 / 0)
Somehow, conservatives have justified trading the reality of science for the ideology of right-wing politics.  

[ Parent ]
mitigate effects? (0.00 / 0)

There's nothing we can do.

Our ancestors will be faced with another Ice Age, no matter what we do.

And many generations after that, the Earth will start warming again, and the Ice Age will end. Again.


"There's nothing we can do" (0.00 / 0)
Now there's some massive defeatism.

Either that, or you don't understand the word "mitigation."


[ Parent ]
Is Baucus abandoning our generations's greatest challenge? (0.00 / 0)
Montana's "Dependence" on Coal Mining, Electric Generation, and Oil Refining (PBS Commentary by University of Montana Economics Professor Emeritus Tom Powers)

Last week Montana Senator Max Baucus appeared to side with Republicans and a handful of coal-state Democrats in opposition to the US Environmental Protection Agency using the authority that the US Supreme Court has said EPA has to regulate greenhouse gas emissions under the Clean Air Act.

Baucus was quoted as saying that the regulation of greenhouse gases was too important and complicated to trust to just a federal agency. Instead, that regulation should remain the business of the US Congress where different regional and industrial interests can be balanced. Congress, of course, has not been able to muster the votes to pass any climate protection legislation, and with Republican's expected to be significantly more powerful in Congress after the mid-term elections, there is little chance a greenhouse gas emission control bill will be produced by Congress any time soon. No EPA greenhouse gas regulation may effectively mean no greenhouse gas regulation at all for the indefinite future. [Montana is the 12th largest contributor to green house emissions in the country].

Because Baucus is a member of the Senate Committee on the Environment and Public Works, his apparent opposition to allowing EPA to adopt regulations controlling greenhouse gas emissions was big news in Washington DC. One of the Capitol's influential daily newsletters, Environment and Energy, explained Baucus' waffling on the regulation of greenhouse gases by saying: "Baucus is wary of efforts to limit carbon emissions, as coal mining, coal-fired electricity and oil refineries dominate his state.

It is true that Montana has lots of coal and continues to produce significant amounts of petroleum and natural gas. It is also true that a half-dozen large coal mines are operating in the state, shipping that coal to coal-fired generators across the nation. That coal mining also supports six coal-fired generators here in Montana including Colstrip's four generators. We also have oil refineries in Billings, Great Falls, and Laurel. We have high voltage transmission lines delivering the electricity we generate to the West Coast, a petroleum products pipeline stretching across much of the state connecting some of our refineries with the states to the west and a variety of natural gas pipelines crisscrossing the state. Clearly energy production, transformation, and transmission are a significant part of Montana's economy. But are we "dominated" by these energy industries.

That description, of course, is not just a shorthand way for Washington DC insiders to try to make sense out of why our representatives vote the way they do. It is also a description that increases the political power of those very fossil fuel sectors in Montana, giving them more leverage to either block or change any proposed greenhouse gas regulations or legislation. That, actually, is what Baucus meant by saying that regulation of greenhouse gases should be done in Congress where heavy emitters of greenhouse gases can better get their economic interests taken into account.

For that reason, it is important to investigate the extent to which Montana is actually economically "dependent" on coal mines, coal-fired electric generators, and oil refineries. The answer to that is that we have "little" and "shrinking" economic dependence on those energy industries. The Montana Coal Council tells us that in 2009 about 1,150 people were employed in coal mining in Montana. That sounds like a lot of jobs, but there were about 625,000 jobs in Montana in 2009. The coal mining jobs represented about one out of every 500 jobs, less than two-tenths of one percent of all jobs. In petroleum refining, we have about 1,100 jobs, about the same as in coal mining. If we look at electric generation, the 2002 and 2007 Economic Census indicate that the employment in electric generation was about 450, but about 150 of those jobs were associated with hydroelectric generation, leaving about 300 workers engaged in fossil fuel-based generation. Clearly that is even a smaller sliver of the total Montana economy, one out of every 2,000 jobs. If we add all of the coal mining, coal-fired electric generation, and petroleum refining jobs together, there are about 2,600 jobs associated with these energy sectors. That is, these sectors provide one out of every 250 Montana jobs or about four-tenths of one percent of total jobs. [the draft EIS concludes the proposed MSTI line would create mostly out-of-state and temporary jobs, despite the Governor's claim projects like these 'would result in over 20,000 direct and indirect jobs.']

To call this a "dominant" position in the Montana economy is more than a stretch, it is at the very limits of hyperbole. One can, of course, start using multipliers to inflate this number. But any reasonable multiplier would leave us accounting for less than two percent of the Montana's jobs. It might be better to be worrying more about the other 98 percent of jobs if we are really concerned about the future of the Montana economy.

Just as important, we could ask how many of the new jobs that have been created in Montana over the last 25 years were created in these energy sectors. Over the last quarter century, Montana added almost 220,000 jobs, over a 50 percent increase. During that time, employment in coal mining declined by over 300. Employment in coal-fired generation also appears to have declined as automation reduced the necessary work force. On the other hand employment at our oil refineries expanded by 200. So overall, these three energy sectors lost a couple of hundred jobs while the over all economy was expanding dramatically. Just in health care, for instance, almost 30,000 new jobs were created, more than doubling that workforce.

It is important that we focus clearly on the economy we actually have and the sources of economic vitality that have actually been supporting the expansion of employment opportunities. Our continued fascination with the view through the economic rear-view mirror leads only to confusion and bad public economic policy that allows a tiny sliver of economic participants to distort public policy to protect their private interests at the expense of the rest of the population and the economy.


Wake Up or Smell the Bulldozer Fumes! Private Property Rights Under Attack (0.00 / 0)
When did the protection of private property rights become passe? Seriously!

Draft House Bill 198 introduced last week in the Montana Legislative session threatens private property rights by giving multi-national utility corporations the legal ability to confiscate private property using eminent domain.

The intent of the draft HB 198, introduced by House Representative Ken Peterson of Billings, is to overturn a recent ruling by District Judge Laurie McKinnon in Cutbank, Mont. against a Canadian high-voltage power line developer's authority to condemn private property in Montana to transmit power to out-of-state markets. The first hearing on HB 198 is Wednesday, Jan .12 at 3 p.m. in Helena.

How a Montana legislator votes on this bill will put them squarely on record as either favoring out-of-state corporate interests or standing up to those interests by voting to defend the constitutional and private property rights of everyday, working Montanans.

Legislator contact information is available at http://nris.mt.gov/gis/legisla...

Wake up or smell the bulldozer exhaust fumes!


I submit to you (0.00 / 0)
A comment left to a post that is 4 months old will get very little readership.

However, if you really have something on your mind, you can post a diary about it.  You are a registered user, else you wouldn't be able to leave comment.  So quit grousing at somebody who no longer posts here, and post yourself.  Diaries, they're not just for breakfast anymore ...


[ Parent ]
Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


Bookmark and Share

Poll
Voting. Useful or not?
Yes!
No!
Maybe, but only if you vote my way.
There are theories that ...
Meh ...

Results

Blog Roll
  • A Secular Franciscan Life
  • Big Sky Blog
  • David Crisp's Billings Blog
  • Discovering Urbanism
  • Ecorover
  • Great Falls Firefly
  • Intelligent Discontent
  • Intermountain Energy
  • Lesley's Podcast
  • Livingston, I Presume
  • Great Falls Firefly
  • Montana Cowgirl
  • Montana Main St.
  • Montana Maven
  • Montana With kids
  • Patia Stephens
  • Prairie Mary
  • Speedkill
  • Sporky
  • The Alberton Papers
  • The Fighting Liberal
  • The Montana Capitol Blog
  • The Montana Misanthrope
  • Thoughts From the Middle of Nowhere
  • Treasure State Judaism
  • Writing and the West
  • Wrong Dog's Life Chest
  • Wulfgar!

  • Powered by: SoapBlox