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by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

About that Cowgirl post...

by: Jay Stevens

Sat Oct 23, 2010 at 13:19:22 PM MST


A Montana Cowgirl post morphed from a flare-up to a full-on issue, thanks to a Matt Gouras piece that questioned our former blogger's work and writing habits.

Everybody's talking about it. And you probably want to know what LiTWers think about it all, etc & co.

I'll start with the easy stuff first. The "man purse" post was unfortunate; Cowgirl got called out; she apologized. The incident is in no way representative of anything larger, unlike other recent homophobic comments that were representative of a movement's ties to anti-gay activists, militia groups, white supremacists, and other undesirables. The post isn't even representative of Cowgirl's views on LGBT rights, which she ardently supports. My only regret about the whole thing is that I wish I had the thoughtfulness to have called out Cowgirl before Jamee Greer did.

If Matt Gouras had written the incident up for the AP simply to "balance" the recent Tea Party comments, I'd call it bullsh*t journalistic hack-ery and false equivalency. But Gouras - clumsily - used the incident to unload everything he knows about Cowgirl onto the public. Posting the Department of Labor documents that weren't available to the public - the location of an Internet hookup in the state Capitol Cowgirl was using - etc & company. There are implications here - the worst being that Cowgirl is blogging on the state taxpayer dime for unnamed public officials in Helena - but no evidence. After all, Gouras' implications have explanations: Cowgirl's not a state worker; Cowgirl's a state worker, but blogging on personal time; Cowgirl's getting her "scoops" from tips sent her way, not fed to her by an overlord (lord knows my inbox is filled with innuendo, gossip, and tips); etc & co. That is, I don't know how, where, and when Cowgirl blogs. Unless there's proof of wrong-doing, I'm going to assume she's following the law and acting ethically.

As for Cowgirl and Left in the West: well, we aired our opinion about freeing Cowgirl from our front-page status back in July on the blog. Basically we felt featuring an anonymous blogger affected our credibility. Our readers know who we are and our professional political relationships and can easily place our posts in that context. Throwing an anonymous blogger into the mix implied -- to our readers -- that we approved and abetted their views, and that their opinions were being elevated under our "authority." In reality, we don't have the time to impose strict editorial guidelines, and have no interest in dictating the ideology of diarists, and we liked Cowgirl because she wrote posts that sparked  controversy, not because of any camp or faction she may have belonged to. But we were called out by some folks we respect, so we decided to change our policy.

On a more general note, I still strongly believe in anonymity for bloggers. There are people who would face professional or personal retribution for expressing their opinions and deserve a shield for free expression. Some great, well-thought-out commentary comes from anonymous sources, and I'd hate to lose that. That said, I don't think anonymity should be used to free bloggers or commenters from issuing baseless accusations or rumor. But then, that should go for everyone.

But I do find all of this fascinating. The Internet is a big, chaotic place with all kinds of information, little of it regulated or policed. Imposing etiquette, standards, and ethics on all the various sites and writers the way we typically do in print media is impossible. That means the onus of sifting through information and enforcing an ethos of responsibility onto writers falls on us, the reader. We need to read everything critically and reward those who do well with our clicks.

Are we up to it?

Jay Stevens :: About that Cowgirl post...
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Jay (0.00 / 0)
I have good reason to ask this question, as I'm certain you know.  I only want an honest answer and have no reason other than the gift of trust to accept it as such.  Still, I trust you and Matt, but I need to know.

Was the rather useless information fed to Gouras from the admins at Left In The West?  


No. (0.00 / 0)
Anyone who posts anonymously here on LiTW will have their identity protected, including IP addresses or other login information, and that includes Cowgirl.

[ Parent ]
MC's site has devolved to Democratic Astroturf (0.00 / 0)
And as such, it is not worth a click for me. Your site is much better without her.

de-volved? (0.00 / 0)

It started out as Dem astroturf - I'm just surprised that it took me so long to sniff it out.

I shouldn't take pleasure in being proven correct, as usual, but what the heck -

FYI - the story isn't over -  


How is the story "not over"? (0.00 / 0)
Even if you guys finally out her (something I find unlikely at this point given that you haven't already), the only way this story will significantly change is if you can tie her to the administration. Her site has been exposed for what it is - Dem Astroturf, she is more than willing to throw the traditional Dem ideal like equality of all and an end to gender/gay baiting under the bus if it suits her goal of astroturfing and she offers nothing but dis-incentive to ever vote Democrat again. I don't see how that will change.

I am done with the whole thing and I will never buy a moral stance from a Democrat again.


[ Parent ]
Well done, bud (0.00 / 0)
You just told me that you will never trust a moral stance from me again.

The Republican/Tea Party demonization machine has really done a number on you.  They've completely blinded you to the fact that "Democrat" is not some monolith you can take arms against.  Democrats are people, who obviously don't all agree with each other.  Do try to keep that in mind every now and again.


[ Parent ]
There is a difference between the Democratic Party (0.00 / 0)
And something you post. First, you may be a Democratic Supporter, but you are far from the typical Democrat as evidenced by the majority of the Democratic Party today. Yes, I tend to give a little more weight to what you say - partially because you are my brother and I have a great deal of respect for you, and partially because you tend to give more thought to what you say. I would like to point out, though, that you have publicly stated you have many of the same issues with Cowgirl's site that I do rather than blindly defend it like Turner, Larry and that ilk.

It isn't just the Democrats in Montana, either. Look at the Aquabudda snafu that the Democratic Candidate tried to float on his Republican Opponent. Look at the other nasty attack ads floating around the TV and internet. It is as if the Democrats have abandoned their high ground and are now using every tactic - including those they have rabidly complained about in the past - to win. The ends do not justify the means.


[ Parent ]
you know... (0.00 / 0)
...I suspect for many, liking CG's posts has some other source than blind devotion to the D brand... jes' sayin'.  

[ Parent ]
That's bullshit. (0.00 / 1)
You didn't seriously delete that, did you?  That's bad.  And that's EXACTLY why Cowgirl's site is superior.

[ Parent ]
yeah... (0.00 / 0)
Remember those comment policies we enacted recently...?

I'm not crazy about Moorcat's characterization of CG readers -- mainly because I don't think he's really giving it much thought, seeing it all from his particular viewpoint, but his comment didn't merit the abuse you laid on him.  


[ Parent ]
She's Not On The Ballot (0.00 / 0)
Nor is she any candidate's spokesperson.  Not voting for a Dem candidate because of what this blogger writes is like not voting for any Republican because Sarah Palin stretches the truth.  Or because Rush Limbaugh sells soap with exaggeration.

Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law.

[ Parent ]
It isn't Cowgirl's site itself that is the issue (0.00 / 0)
While the site is offensive enough, it is actually the blase way that the other Democrats treat it. They do not see the inherent hypocrisy in making excuses for her trangresions while making accusations against Republicans for doing the same things. It is the attitude that it is somehow different because she is supporting Democratic Candidates that I have a problem with.

As I have said before, the ends do not justify the means and using the excuse "Well they did it first" doesn't make it right. Sexism, Bigotry, Gender Baiting, Astroturfing, making insupportable character attacks on people.. none of these things are right regardless of who is doing them. When you stand aside and make excuses for those actions, you are giving passive acceptance to those actions. The one thing I have always admired about the Democrats is that they seemed genuinely concerns about these things. This election cycle has taught me different.  


[ Parent ]
She's Getting Called Out Plenty (0.00 / 0)

Not enough for people looking for excuses, obviously.

Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law.


[ Parent ]
Oh irony, how you taunt me! (0.00 / 0)
Sexism, Bigotry, Gender Baiting,Astroturfing,  -----  making insupportable character attacks on people

I must commend the stellar job you've done at making certain the entirety of the Montana internet knows how morally outraged you are.  Here, let me help.  YOU.ARE.OUTRAGED!

Only a few teensy little problems with that.

1)  The claim of Sexism towards Cowgirl is fairly groundless.
2)  The claim of Bigotry is ridiculous on it's face.
3)  The claim of Gender Baiting has some teeth concerning one post of hers.  It's amusing that that doesn't stop you from slapping universal labels on her forehead, and in very bigoted manner extending that to 'other Democrats' who don't share your righteous, holy and apostolic sincerity of virtues.  It does raise a curious question though.  If you are disgusted with Democrats defending Cowgirl with "they did it first", then where the hell were you when "they" (Republicans-Tea partiers-closed minded independents) were doing what you freely admit they did?  And where is your very public 'high-dudgeon' considering that all 3 of those groups still and continuously use the very Gender Baiting, Sexism and Bigotry you defend as 'not being part of the tea party's real concern'?  Before announcing yourself as the Grand Inquisitor of hypocrisy, you might want to turn that finger 180.
4)  Here is where irony really grabs the gutty-works and shakes out a laugh.  The charge of Astroturfing is unsupported.  The only support you have for it is your decision that that is what Cowgirl is doing, and evidence to the contrary be damned.  As a former technology professional, I had thought that you would recognize the rather glaring holes in Gouras' 'detective' work.  But no, in an excellent example of confirmation bias, like much of the wingnut-o-sphere has, you have decided what must be True ... even if it's "insupportable".

As to what issues I do or not have with Cowgirl's site, they are not yours, obviously.  I freely admit that it may or may not be astroturfing.  I also know, given my slavish devotion to facts, that there isn't enough evidence to say one way or the other.  What I know it isn't is a criminal enterprise.  And when I have a problem with something that she posts, I usually let her know my thoughts and opinions, without declaring a crusade about it.  I'm aided in that by not just deciding for others what they are "blind" about and what they aren't.  I don't believe that Turner is blind to what can be problematic about Cowgirl's postings.  But, unlike you, he seems to keep a level of perspective about it.  This is the blog-o-tubes, not some moralist Thunderdome cage match to decide the future of America.


[ Parent ]
Oh look! (0.00 / 0)
Another crusade for Don Moorcatquixote!

Get 'em, tiger!


[ Parent ]
somebody forget to have their coffee this morning? (0.00 / 0)
I see... I am the hypocrite. I get it. Thanks for letting me know.

[ Parent ]
Dude (0.00 / 0)
You staked out the absolutist position.  Don't be fussing with me when it comes home to roost.  I don't think you're a hypocrite.  But you sure as hell haven't thought this through.  You have more skills than that.  Use them.

You want to post your flag on top of Mount Anti-Sexism-Bigotry?  Fine.  The enemy is at your feet, and it ain't Cowgirl.  What are you going to do?  What do you really believe?  Right wing Uber Alles?  Inquiring minds want to know, 'cause right now, you ain't showing much of the moral imperative you displayed earlier.

And I never forget to have my coffee, morning, noon or night.  You know this.


[ Parent ]
Already "planted that flag", bud (0.00 / 0)
Unlike most you have read my blog and know that I have quite publicly made my stand (up to and including a very public letter to the editor). I have also written both my representatives about the anti gay plank of the Republican Party platform.

You have purposefully mis-interpreted my argument anyway. It isn't that Cowgirl's site is anti gay or even that it is astroturf/Dem attack dog.. it is that the Democrats in General have stayed away from the dirty politics - instead they have pointed out (rightly) that the Republican dirty politics are just that.. dirty. This year, they have reversed their stance 180 degrees and fully embraced dirty politics. The moral high ground they have attempted to maintain has evaporated into mist.

You seem to think that is OK - that the ends justify the means. Bully for you. I don't. Deal with it.


[ Parent ]
Really? (0.00 / 0)
You have purposefully mis-interpreted my argument anyway.

How could I have done that when I used your words in refutation?  It's rather more evident that you don't understand what argument you're making.

it is that the Democrats in General have stayed away from the dirty politics

Excuse me?  In what universe?  Back in 2002, we had us a little Senatorial election here.  A big burly 'Man's Man' with his 10 gallon Stetson, tooled leather vest and porn 'stach was gonna unseat that craven Democrat Max Baucus.  The guys name was Mike Taylor.  About a month before the election, the Democratic party (Baucus campaign) released a commercial showing video footage of Mike Taylor dressing another man's hair.  OMG!!!  The outrage over that went national.  How dare they show something that made Taylor look  ~GASP~  ... Gay?

Here's the part that amused the shit out of me.  The video footage was made by Taylor himself, to promote the school of cosmetology he owned and operated at the time the video was made (1970's, just to add insult to injury).  The point of the commercial wasn't that Taylor was a closeted homosexual, but that he had defrauded the government of student loan money while he owned that school.  For reasons both pointed and implied, the advert worked.  Taylor actually quit his campaign for a week, and lost very badly.

Dirty tricks, image displacement and rat-fucking are more common in politics at all levels than you seem aware of.  Just for a hoot, check out the two contests between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams sometime.  And both sides do it, though it would be fairer to say that all sides do it.  If you actually got the impression that Democrats were above it, then that can only be because the Republicans are so much better at it.  Blaming the rest of us because you failed to notice the obvious until now is not an argument or a moral stand.  It's self important petulance.

If that is the view with which you wish to approach politics, then knock yourself right out.  But you are in no position to stand in judgment of anyone else, mostly because you don't know what they know or what they think.  And that's what you have to deal with.


[ Parent ]
"Dem Astroturf"? (3.00 / 1)
The charges being made against Montana Cowgirl are hard for me to follow.  Especially odd is the charge that she is abandoning Democratic values to pursue her "goal of astroturfing."

To me, "astroturfing" describes a clandestine corporate-created and financed political movement representing itself as being a grass-root movement arising more or less spontaneously out of popular sentiment.  Dick Armey's multi-million dollar Hands Off My Health Care movement is a good example.

Cowgirl's blog in no way resembles this.  Hers is a shoestring, one-woman operation.  She uses it to attack Republicans and sometimes Democrats (though she usually boosts them).  Others comment there, including me.  Most are Democrats, but Republicans also comment on her blog.

It has a clear political bias.  But there's nothing artificial or astroturfy about it.

If someone is disincentivized to vote Democratic by what appears in one person's blog, well, they must already be leaning un-Democratic.  They're just looking for an excuse to vote Republican or stay home.            


when i go to a ballgame i go to see the talent,but i don't necessarily like all the plays (0.00 / 0)
cowgirl has hit some out of the park. grounded into some double plays, and she has proved that she can be a threat...

that is all you need to do to earn your chops in this silly business of blogging. being a threat gets you attention. which is a double edged sword. just like any slugger, once you hit a home run the crowd starts to boo when you don't smack it into the seats every time.

i can take the good with the bad. after all, i am a problem bear foraging whatever i can get out here. i have no idea who she is and i am never curious who anyone is. i just take the measure of the words that are written and know that we all have our bad days and our good days.  


[ Parent ]
Close Turner - very close (0.00 / 0)

You are almost correct - while it's true that she is the only poster, and she is 95% of the commentators too, hiding behind anonymous nicknames, she's not alone.

She has been using posts penned by others and claiming them as her own - if you read them carefully, you'll see her slip up and refer to herself as a third-person. Nobody actually writing a post will do that.

That site will be gone in about 10 days - and then watch the Dems scramble to cover their tracks.

Matt/Jay knew what they were doing when they tossed her out on her ear - kudos.


[ Parent ]
Probably a Bob Dole fan (0.00 / 0)


Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law.

[ Parent ]
Jay writes in the third person all the time (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Prove any of it (0.00 / 0)
and she is 95% of the commentators too

Prove it.  Eric, even when you had the worst trolls in the history of the Montana Intertubes, nobody was dumb enough to accuse you of being 95% of them.  Maybe we should have.

She has been using posts penned by others and claiming them as her own - if you read them carefully, you'll see her slip up

This looks shopped.I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.  Eric, you're becoming clownish at this point.

That site will be gone in about 10 days - and then watch the Dems scramble to cover their tracks.

That would make sense if she hadn't already weathered the storm of you and yours pretending you know anything.  But we'll see.

Matt/Jay knew what they were doing when they tossed her out on her ear

Eric, you are the poster child for conformation bias.


[ Parent ]
i have always found it curious though (0.00 / 0)
that you have no link in your blog roll for mcg. just oversight or intentional?  

haven't updated the blogroll in over a year... (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Assume no malice where incompetence will suffice (0.00 / 0)
Right?

[ Parent ]
incompetence is often more damaging than intentional harm (0.00 / 0)
a good case in point would be the complete ineptitude of the democratic party in allowing republicans to return to some semblance of power this year after being handed the golden opportunity of hatred americans felt toward bush turned into a forgotten vague memory because the change that americans wanted was woefully mishandled.

now that takes some stupidity in my book.
if you want a snark war with me mr singer, i can accomodate you when i have finished with payday lending. meanwhile i am busy doing something that does not involve the complete and total ineptitude of a party which managed to squander so much effort by so many people and then turn around and blame the very people who told democrats how to do things right in the first place.

when incompetence is accomodated it becomes all pervasive. and when those who err point fingers at those who tried to convince intransigent party insiders to avoid error, it simply breeds more error. hence, we have gridlock. top-down error without some degree of self-introspection and honest appraisal is how failure is built into the democratic party.


[ Parent ]
oh i almost forgot... (0.00 / 0)
that failure is served up with a liberal dose of arrogance on your part. something i am mindful of.

[ Parent ]
whoa, p-bear (0.00 / 0)
Talk about a disproportionate response. I thought spring was grumpy-time for bears.

[ Parent ]
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