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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Apples and Oranges

by: Rob Kailey

Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 16:21:48 PM MST


I certainly don't want to make it a habit to link to conservative leaning websites, but in this case, Jack the blogger has well earned it.  He pin-points the battlegrounds on which the Senate election of next year will be fought.

I have a few disagreements with him.  I think his concern for Great Falls is a bit of personal bias.  Tester's appeal among Veterans is growing, and that could heavily weight Cascade county.  And I think he follows raw statistics a little too closely in the case of Stan Jones regarding Burns performance in Yellowstone County.  Still, he doesn't succumb to what has become something of a pet-peeve of mine.  Jack uses election statistics from 2006, but does not interpret 2012 purely through the lens of that election.

That would be the point of this post.  Tester's detractors, right and left, tend to use 2006 as a baseline (pun greatly intended) for what will happen in next year's election.  If I were to present the fact that since the passing of the 17th amendment, Montana has only elected 2 Republicans to the Senate, and that bodes well for Tester, most would see that trope for what it is.  It is a pointless statistic, factual but irrelevant.

Many of the claims being made on blogs and in the news are similarly factual but irrelevant.  The most egregious, of course, is that Tester only beat Burns by 3,562 votes.  Be afraid of that tiny margin.  No.  Dennis Rehberg is not Conrad Burns, who by all accounts was far more amiable and likable than Rehberg is in person.  (I personally can attest to that, though I abhor what Burns accomplished more than I laugh at what Rehberg has never done a damned thing of value.)  Jon Tester was a newb challenging an incumbent.  In this race, both Rehberg and Tester are incumbents in their own fashion, with Tester holding the seat in contest.  There is no comparison with the vote tally of 2006, leading to 2012.  None.

The second great trope is that Tester had a problem raising money in 2006.  That's true.  If not for Pearl Jam, and how I love them for this, Jon Tester's campaign would likely never have gotten off the ground.  This election is much different.  In the first several months of this year, Jon Tester has raised 1.5 million smackeroos. Dennis raised slightly more than $500,000, but put a lot of his own personal wealth into the campaign to report a war chest of over a million bucks.  This bears no relation to 2006.  What is surprising to me is the leftward reaction that Jon Tester is being bought for campaign dollars; that reaction coming angrily from the very people who cry loudly that they won't contribute to the Tester campaign until he becomes all and everything they expect.  This, strangely enough, is one of the things that can adequately be compared to the election of 2006, in a particular sense.  Jon Tester, an untried candidate, got the endorsement of Montana's large union organizations and padded his election campaign with their moneys.  The AFL-CIO and other Montana unions are already fundraising for Tester's reelection.  Strangely, this is discounted by those who wish to point out Tester's newly acquired corporate sponsors.  I do wonder why.  This is the sense in which the election of 2012 will have nothing to do with the election of 2006.  Those who wish to point, and they are many, to Jon's money issues from the previous election had best be coherent enough to accept that money won't be the problem this year.

The state has changed.  As Jack the blogger points out, certain counties are predictable.  I'm not nearly as convinced as he is.  In 2006, Gallatin County and Missoula county over performed.  In 2010, Butte-Silver Bow and Deerlodge county radically underperformed.  So did Gallatin.  In 2010, Montana took a very hard turn to the right.  This cannot be expected to continue.  What is clearly dissimilar from 2006 to 2012 is that 2006 was an off-year election.  2012 isn't.  We will be voting for Governor, we will be voting for statewide offices and we will be voting for the President of the US.  More to the point, many will be voting for state legislative office based on the pathetic performance of the 2011 legislature.  Turnout will be radically different from 2006.  Comparisons from those hoping to promote the foolish fantasy of voter fraud, or those concern trolling about Jon Tester, will get swept away in the actual vote of 2012.  We will find out which Montanans care, and which don't.

I hope that most of the progressives in the state give up the idea that Jon Tester's support is based on a minimal constituency given 2006.  He may win, he may not.  But the apples v. oranges thing is getting really old.  The future is what it is, and we can affect it.  Or we can rely on poor comparisons to the past.  Your choice, of course.

Rob Kailey :: Apples and Oranges
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Apples and Oranges | 11 comments
Tester's Chances (0.00 / 0)

Seven months ago Denny mopped up the canvas with the best that the Dems had to offer -

The 2012 election, even more than the last one, will be a referendum on Obama. And since Tester has been such a strong supporter of Obama I'd say his chances are not good - today at least.

Did Tester walk off the plank for The Great Leader, by voting for Obamacare? Twice ?  Maybe.

BUT - it's a long time until the next election, and I expect to see Tester pull a 'Max' and start acting conservative, plus, maybe gas won't be $4.00 a gallon, and unemployment & prices might start going down and The Great Leader won't look so bad -

It's too hard to call at this point.



Wrong again, Eric. (0.00 / 0)
Tester has a record to run on, and  Dopey has a record to run from!  Well actually, a criminal and DUMBass record!  But alas, poor drunken Dopey has NO legislative record of accomplishment of ANY type to run on.  Suing the Fire Dept. and drunken benders are kinda like a record, but those are his ONLY accomplishments.  

And Tester even  co-opted poor Dopey's ONLY claim to fame, beating up on wilderness advocates.  Dopey's famous "town hall" meetings have become CLOWN hall meetings!  Dopey couldn't  even draw flies at his Billings campaign shindig.  You were probaby there, Eric.  Were there all of ten of you?

Nope.  I think  folks  have had it with Dopey, Eric. Even the Kockh brothers don't have enough money to turn that turd into gold.

I predict Tester by  ten percentage points.


[ Parent ]
You keep saying that... are you sure the word means what you think it means? (0.00 / 0)
You have posted that " Denny mopped up the canvas with the best that the Dems had to offer " at a couple of sites now. It seems to be a meme for you. Sadly, I hardly think that McDonald was the best that the Montana Democrats had or have to offer. Further, Tester is not McDonald.

Rob actually did a good job of summing up the upcoming race. There a lots of factors that will be involved in this race and none of them have anything to do with the McDonald/Rehberg race. I personally think it will close. Both candidates have money. Both have name recognision and both are kind of incumbants. It should be interesting.

Even given Tester's vote on ACA (not Obamacare but that is an argument for another day) not withstanding, there are plenty of issues that Tester can stand well on. Sadly, Denny has far less of them. Most of the time, Denny has to lie or misconstrue his position (and votes) to get support. This is becoming harder as he is making more blatent mistakes that are getting caught by both mainstream media, the statewide media, and other information sources like blogs, facebook and twitter. His latest escapade with this amendment covering the Food and Drug Administration is likely to hurt him - especially in Montana given their willingness to combat things like youth smoking. This is an issue that Tester can easily use to point out Denny's duplicity. If Rehberg continues to hand out gaffes like this, the margin will widen considerably.

Further - as has already been pointed out - many conservatives (especially the moderate and old school conservatives) are appalled, horrified and disgusted with the antics of Montana's Tea party in particular and the Montana hard (or should we say "Heavenly") right. This has already resulted in crushing defeats for tea party darlings in local school elections and is being seen by Tea Party conservative candidates at meet and greets. In a local appearence of primarily conservatives, hardline Tea Bagger Essmann was all but booed off the stage at one point. There is definite anger and resentment in the conservative community right now at these ultra right wing idiots.

Rehbergs only hope to pick up the moderate conservative vote is to distance himself from the ultra right wing. Unfortunately to do so, he has to once again, switch positions. After declaring himself a Tea Party member and claiming large Tea Party support, it will be difficult for him to do this.

Personally, I think that as the matter stands now, Republicans, in general, will take a serious beating next year in Montana - both locally and nationally. Lots could change between now and then, but it will definitely be a game of "catch up".


[ Parent ]
All true. (0.00 / 0)
And Moorcat stole the next point I was going to make.  The TEAwanker party.  It's true that most people have the attention span of a good, healthy bowel movement.  THAT'S precisly why magazines such as Readers Digest and People are such hits.  You can actually finish an entire article before finishing your morning constitutional!  They were DESIGNED to last for a good dump.

And speaking of constitutional, Moorcat's most cogent point I believe  IS the one about the goofball Teawankers like birther bob, etc., who were  endlessly spouting the Constitution.  Sure, people DO have short attention spans, but NO ONE is gonna forget any time soon the big dump that the Teawankers took on the state in the last Lege!

Look, Moorcat is a conservative, and I'm a wacko liberal radical enviro, and we BOTH agree that the Teawankers were the biggest pile of dung to EVER make it to Helena.  And where was widdle Dopey Reeburp in all this?  Why, he was right at the BOTTOM of the cow pie!  He SELF-IDENTIFIED with the Wankers as soon as they sprout like a boil on the Pubbie's ass!  In fact, Dopey was PROUD to be the first Wanker out there.

You see, Eric, it's kinda like that old joke about the kid who recieves a box of horse caca for Christmas and is very enthused.  He jumps right in and begins happily digging through the crap while his amazed parents look on.  When they ask him what he's doing, he responds that "there's just gotta be a pony in here somewhere"!

Well, Eric, the good people of Montana have now finally gotten to the bottom of that box-o-crap known as the Teawanker party.  And you wanna know sumthin'?  THERE IS NO PONY, only Dopey Reeburp.  It's over for the Dopester, Eric.  And really, I don't understand how this could possibly sadden anyone, even you.


[ Parent ]
Sounds familiar Larry - (0.00 / 0)

If you recall, you made similar arguments when you were predicting a Dennis McDonald victory several  months ago - LOL

I haven't been to GF in a while, but the day will come when I'll collect on our bet - a burger from Burger Master, with onion rings -  


Oh - BTW (0.00 / 0)

Tell me Moorcat - what group of Dems DIDN'T vote for McDonald, that will miraculously go out and support Jon Tester?

And in your honest opinion, you don't think that Tester voting to support Obama 97% of the time isn't going to be a negative ?  Right.


As usual, you missed the entire point (0.00 / 0)
Any election (at least in the last decade or more) has basically been decided by two things - 1) how motived the base of that party is - how many show to vote, and 2) where the moderates of the two parties fall. That equation is fairly written in stone. It has been a long time since any national candidate has energized the opposing side to win a landslide victory.

That said, your question about the McDonald/Rehberg race VS the Tester/Rehberg race is both moot and short sighted. The answer remains to be seen. In my opinion, McDonald failed to energize his base enough to push the polls and more importantly, his support among moderates of both parties was week. The Tester/Rehberg race will be a horse of a different color for many reasons, not the least of which is that it is an "on" year for national elections. Both bases are likely to be more active given that fact. The question remains how the moderates fall.

In answer to your second question, again, it will depend on a lot of factors. You seem to think that the Republicans can tie Tester to Obama. You have a lot more faith in that than I do. Tester simply doesn't fit that well into the profile you want to put him in. I think anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together are going to judge Tester on his own merits. Tester made the conservatives happy with his wolf rider. He has made a lot inroads in Veterans Benefits and Affairs. All this will help his standing with moderates (and even some more right leaning Conservatives). Rehberg, on the other hand hasn't done so well.

Also to be considered is who the Republican Presidencial Candidate ends up being. If it is a nutjob like the Wicked Witch of the North, Tester's support of Obama may very well help him in the election. What you don't seem to get is that a LOT of conservatives are tired of the strident Tea Baggers (especially those from Montana like Knox and Essmann). It is getting to the point that many of us would rather vote for a moderate Democrat VS a hard right winger like Knox.

Tell you what... I will predict that the Tester/Rehberg race is close - like within 5%. I won't go so far as to predict who will win because there are too many factors unclear yet (whether the economy improves, ect), but I think it is pretty safe to predict a close race. Rehberg is in new territory here. He can't run a hit and run, non engagement campaign like he did against Lindeen and McDonald. He will actually have to engage Tester. It should be interesting to see how he does. He certainly hasn't started off well. Telling people he is "cash poor" backfired big time - especially with conservatives. Trying to blame his wife for the suit against Billings has also backfired. He has some catchup to do.


[ Parent ]
little time to post (0.00 / 0)

  Buh Bye Jon buoy One Term Lying Deceiving Baucus Tool. The Progs can easily see you are a Bankers Boy and a Baucus Tool...
  Democrats in Montana need to DUMP the Baucus Machine and it starts with Dumping that lying toad Tester. Who cares if Denny is elected he'll still be a first rate Buffoon.

       DUMP The Banker Buoy Tester  


Ya know (0.00 / 0)
If Jon wins reelection, William, I'm uncertain who will be more suicidal, the Teahadists or you.

[ Parent ]
What I find interesting is (0.00 / 0)
Tester seems to be getting more support right now from moderate conservatives, Liberatarians and independants than he seems to be getting from the left. I belong to a group of moderate conservatives/liberatarians that, in a discussion last night, came to the conclusion that Tester would better serve us than Rehberg would. He leans left, but he actually does things and he isn't afraid to support the interests of the moderate right.

[ Parent ]
And of course you're right, Moorcat, because..... (0.00 / 0)
character counts!  It actually counts a whole lot in Montana.  And this is an area where Dopey Reeburp is woefully lacking.  Tester has done NOTHING of the ignomious magnitude that approaches the escapades of Dopey.  Dopey's a rich boy drunken' stumble bum ne'er-do-well, kinda like Bush.  And I THINK that most Montanans would prefer to have  someone with a leetle more character and a leetle less BEING a character!  

Dopey's antics are fun to watch, but hell, you can see THAT crap  in any bar in Montana on a Friday night.  Get drunk, fall off a barstool.  Get drunk, wreck your car.  Get drunk,  make an ass of yourself.  BEEN there, done that.  But that was back in my younger days, which I hopefully outgrew.  Dopey's nearly as old as I am and still going strong!

p.s.  I once road the entire length of Central Ave. in Great Falls from one end of town to the other on the hood of a '65 Chevy pickup drinking a bottle of wine!  To this day I can't figure out how I wasn't arrested.  (or killed)


[ Parent ]
Apples and Oranges | 11 comments
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