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Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
by: Rob Kailey - Sep 13
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If You Haven't Seen This
by: Rob Kailey - Apr 28
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Impeach the President?
by: Rob Kailey - Mar 16
15 Comments
It's the system, stupid!
by: Jay Stevens - Oct 25
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

The impeachment fallacy

by: Jay Stevens

Sun Jul 08, 2007 at 21:08:50 PM MST


The usually thoughtful Montana Liberty Project has brought up the possible impeachment just in the way it shouldn't: framing it as a tit-for-tat political gambit:

To run a redux, especially in sequence would be the peak of folly. There is nothing to gain except a political score. My message to Congress and Democratic supporters: fail to make yourselves objects of Historian's ridicule.

In reality, of course, supporting a Clinton impeachment was political. Opposing a Bush impeachment is political.

Jay Stevens :: The impeachment fallacy
That's not to say that folks who opposed a Clinton impeachment didn't do so out of politics, or those that support the impeachment of Bush likewise do so out of political motives. But if you look at the two cases, the first was over nothing and plainly injurious to the political health of the nation, and the latter is in response to unconstitutional and impeachable offenses that proved injurious to the political, social, and physical health of our nation.

The list of President Bush's high crimes and misdemeanors can begin with the manufacture of evidence to justify the Iraq War. Or for crimes against humanity for approving the use of kidnapping and torture in violation of international agreements. Or for spying on his own people without warrant. Oh, and data mining, too. Illegal. Or for commuting Scooter Libby's jail sentence, contrary to the desire of the Republican-appointed attorney who prosecuted him, or the Republican-appointed judge who sentenced him -- one of the few actions, interestingly enough, singled out by the Constitution's framers thought warranted impeachment:

"In the [Constitutional] convention George Mason argued that the President might use his pardoning power to 'pardon crimes which were advised by himself' or, before indictment or conviction, 'to stop inquiry and prevent detection.' James Madison responded:

"[I]f the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds [to] believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty. . . .
"Madison went on to [say] contrary to his position in the Philadelphia convention, that the President could be suspended when suspected, and his powers would devolve on the Vice President, who could likewise be suspended until impeached and convicted, if he were also suspected."

If you compare Nixon to Bush, Bush has much more reason to lose his office than Nixon did.

In short, impeachment was written into the Constitution for presidents like George W. Bush.

Bill Clinton lied about a perfectly legal blowjob.

But what matters now is politics -- at least to the Senators who would decide Bush's fate. You see, Montana Liberty's superficial view of an impeachment of Bush is exactly how it would be spun. It's just revenge for Clinton! would shout the pundits. It's pure politics! And that's why it won't happen. It won't happen because there aren't enough courageous Senators in Congress to do the right thing.

That's the grand irony of the Clinton impeachment proceedings. They went after a guy for next to nothing, and made it nearly impossible to get the next president, who has done terrible things.

Montana Liberty talked about "Historian's ridicule," which will no doubt be earned by this present Congress. We already know fairly well how Bush II will be viewed in History. And Congress will rank low, too. But not for pursuing impeachment, but for avoiding it.

But here's the thing: I'm not hot for impeachment, either, because the modern-day GOP doesn't have many, if any, independent-minded and morally courageous representatives in the Senate. Worse, most of them knowingly went along, even abetted, the worst of the Bush administration -- torture, suspension of habeas corpus, warrantless wiretapping. So, no, I don't think impeachment would succeed, even if Bush has deserved it.

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Don't let it get away (4.00 / 1)
However, impeachment should be pushed as it was for Nixon.  The most important purpose of impeachment now will be to send a message that the country thinks that those claims which this Administration has made are not constitutional.  Nixon's crimes were also considered other than constitutional.  And they shouldn't be repeated by any president down the line.  The same message needs to be sent concerning all the precedents that this Administration has set.  Otherwise we may see a president, of any party, putting them into effect as Bush has done with the precedent of signing statements.

The political will for impeachment (0.00 / 0)
Impeachment (the investigation) is something that not only should be done, I am somewhat amazed that it hasn't been done. When the Supreme Court ruled that the actions taken by the Administration (wiretapping and illegally detaining people in violation of both American Law and International Law) were illegal, Impeachment should have been automatic. Unfortunately, our Elected Officials have forgotten thier duty and we, the electorit, seem incapable of "reminding" them that they work for us.

Our Founding Fathers feared an American Nobility. Many of them wrote at great length about it. Unfortunately, thier worst fears have been realised in today's political elite. Our elected officials are "above the law" and nothing that we do, as citizens seems to make a difference. The title "King" fit's GWB far better than president. The president should have to answer to the people.

Until such time as our elected representatives actually start doing thier job - representing us.. -, people like Bush, Cheney, Rove and the comedy bunch that is the US Congress will continue to get away with literally murder. For years there have been a number of moonbats talking about a civil revolution being necessary. I am not so sure that these moonbats are the ones that are wrong...

Moorcat


Why did the founders put in the impeachment clause? (0.00 / 0)
Just so that debate clubs would have something to debate?  Just so we can blog about it?  Some of the founders didn't want an executive branch at all.  No, they were very concerned that an executive would become rogue. It is a necessary part of our political discourse and part of what makes the machinery work. Tester and the others that mouth talking points without thought behind them, do us all a disservice.
When I asked Jon last Monday about impeachment of Cheny , he gave the establishment line "It would be a distraction."  Doing the right thing can never be a distraction.  And just because you don't think you win is no reason not to fight.  (Not to mention the fact that they aren't doing much anyway.  And I remember Watergate.  I studied for my doctorals and watched the proceedings.  Other business was done while it went on.  We can walk and chew gum at the same time, so why can't those busy little bees called our Congress critters?)
It's b.s. and we need to call them on it.  Impeach Cheney with the understanding that we will agree to a pick like a Dick Lugar or a James Baker to run things until 2008. 

1-2 (0.00 / 0)
I'm glad you went more in depth than I did.  I bottom lined it a little too much.

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