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Barack Obama
"Lincoln Sells Out Slaves"
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Rob Kailey is a working schmuck with no ties or affiliations to any governmental or political organizations, save those of sympathy.

Just say "no" to the "filthy fuel"

by: Jay Stevens

Thu Jun 14, 2007 at 13:42:29 PM MST


I have to hand it to George Ochenski, he pretty much summed up the Good Guv's coal-to-gas scheme perfectly. This is a topic I've been wanting to write about since the end of the legislative session, but Ochenski beat me to it.

Quite correctly, Ochenksi recognizes that the scheme is dependent on "carbon sequestration" -- a process that's mostly theoretical -- and possibly billions in taxpayer dollars. That is, it's dirty, risky, and expensive.

It's hard to see this scheme as anything other than a badly-thought-out environmentally-unfriendly government handout to Big Energy.

Jay Stevens :: Just say "no" to the "filthy fuel"
The scenario:

It would be hard to forget the rap we've been getting almost nonstop from our governor's office for more than a year now.  Basically it's that "we are the Saudi Arabia of coal," and, by golly, we can make America energy-independent of "the sheiks, crooks and dictators" from whom we import oil to support our gross consumption habits simply by building enormous plants to turn dirty black coal into clean liquid fuels. Moreover, this will be good for the environment because the carbon dioxide that makes coal such a threat to the global environment can theoretically be captured, compressed under enormous pressure, and injected into the ground where it will sit complacently long into the future. So we are told.

This rosy scenario is further bolstered with the trotting out of dubious analyses showing billions in economic development, thousands of new jobs, millions in new tax receipts, and-this is the best one-Montana showcasing, and then selling, wonderful clean new coal technologies to the rest of the world (China and India, to be specific).

The Boston Globe editorial Ochenski quotes - "No subsidy for a filthy fuel" - goes into the issue in starker terms. According to the Globe, to build the plants necessary to generate the gasoline to replace just 10 percent of our national consumption would cost $70 billion.

All of this largess, though, would replace gasoline with a fuel that would generate about twice the carbon dioxide emissions of gasoline. Even if the plants were built so that their carbon dioxide emissions could be captured and then stored underground, the Environmental Protection Agency estimates that liquefied coal would still emit about 4 percent more carbon dioxide than gasoline.

The United States has immense coal reserves -- enough to make it the Saudi Arabia of this fossil fuel -- so proposals for liquefied coal have become the unkillable Draculas of US energy policy....

The Globe thinks a better use for coal-to-gas is to replace conventional coal in power plants.

The Billings Gazette recently published a report from environmental groups that decried Congressional buzz over the promotion of gassified coal and extracting tar sand and oil shale.

Tar sand is mined extensively in Canada and is found in Utah. The region where Wyoming, Colorado and Utah come together is one of the richest sources of oil shale in the world. Coal is mined in Appalachia and across the West.

Mining all three would produce dangerous greenhouse gases, scar the land, suck up water and hurt wildlife habitat, the report says.

Industry also hasn't proven that oil shale and liquid coal can be produced commercially yet, according to the report.

"There's no question we need to reduce our dependence on oil, but this is the worst possible way to go about it," Lovaas said.

Unfortunately, as Kossak Jerome a Paris demonstrates, big business is hustling down the path of producing more energy with coal, despite the obvious health and environmental impacts that accompanies that energy source, because they are "cheap":

Of course, these plants are cheaper to run for one simple reason: they do not have to pay for all their externalities - pollution, global warming and removed mountain tops are not properly accounted for and the cost is certainly not borne by the coal-burning plant....it is "cheap" because its cost is not paid in dollars but in lives and in damage to the environment and our living conditions.

I'm not sure why we keep coming back to fossil fuels when we consider way to replace oil. I've written this before, but there are better, cheaper, and healthier ways to wrestle with our energy demons. Reorganizing our food supply system, for example, which can be done with good trade legislation and tax incentives. Or using tax incentives and government loans to improve insulation in homes. Or to increase fuel consumption standards in autos. Or promote solar energy.

The only problem with those solutions - all currently feasible and reasonably priced, by the way - is that they reduce consumption. That is, they'd save all of us a lot of money. Which, of course, costs certain industries their profit. In the end, it seems that the "serious" energy proposals batted around by "serious" people all circle around preserving profits for the same group of multinational corporations that currently control our energy supplies.

The big problem here in Montana is that Governor Schweitzer's coal-to-gas plan is brilliant politically. It has the rousing support of Eastern Montana communities, which can only thrive economically as the federal tax dollars start pouring into their side of the state in the form of jobs and infrastructure. It'll be boom times for those towns lagging economically behind the western side of the state, and Schweitzer will naturally win allies in areas historically hostile to Democrats. He's already riding 60-percent approval ratings; a landslide is ensured if he can win even tepid support in the east.

And if Schweitzer is planning on other offices after his Governorship - there is that site, after all - the Good Guv is also making a lot of friends with deep pockets who have investments in the now inert coal fields in the southeastern part of the state.

I'm not advocating abandoning ambitious energy plans here in Montana. Quite the reverse. I think now is the time for bold proposals. Like, say, aiming to remove every Montana household from the energy grid by 2050...

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OK, OK. I hear ya, but..................... (0.00 / 0)
Speaking as a militant enviro wacko, I DO have something to say in Schweitzer's favor.  And it is this.  I have heard MORE coherent energy policy from this one man than the ENTIRE DICK/BUSH REGIME!, which formulated "their" policy behind closed doors! And the public has YET to view it.  Scwheitzer does everything out in the open.  Therefore, he's an easy target to lambaste, as George has done.  Any time a person honeslty puts their ideas out there, they're gonna get hammered.  BUT, at the same time, you know where the guy stands.  And I like that.  AND he wants anyone interested to come to the table!  NOT just industry pukes!  I mean, how much fairer can you get than that?!  And since we've spent some 479 BILLION on a disastrous fiasco of a "war" in Iraq, just THINK of what could have been done with that money toward energy policy!  And I would MUCH prefer have a guy actually trying to SOLVE our energy problems rather than trying to steal oil.  And lastly, Scwheitzer is a realist, folks.  He KNOWS, as we all do in our heart of hearts, that people just ain't gonna conserve SH*T!  It ain't in our natures!  We're motorheads, through and through!  Me too!  So, before we reject out of hand the guv's proposals, compare them to what ELSE is out there!  And what is out there?  More oil collar and secret Dickmeetings behind closed doors!  Oh, and wars!  Don't forget wars.  Hear the man out.  And think.  That's all I'm asking.  Now, there is my take.  Have at it!

I agree (0.00 / 0)
Governor Schweitzer has been very open and honest with us. Can't ask for much more other than asking for a different policy. I've had some concerns about the process especially with the carbon. I don't know a whole lot about it, but if the CO2 is sequestered then are there other ecological problems that need to be answered?

[ Parent ]
CO2 sequestration... (0.00 / 0)
...is a theory. No one knows if it will work, especially in the volumes that we're talking about. And that's not to mention the ugly, earth-rendering infrastructure needed to pump it into the ground. And, even if that works, gassified coal runs still runs dirtier than regular gasoline.

If alternative, clean sources exist, why turn to coal?


[ Parent ]
We shouldn't (0.00 / 0)
I don't think we ought to be turning to coal. I was just wondering what the next problem would be.

[ Parent ]
Just to clarify (0.00 / 0)
My understanding is that liquid coal is cleaner in some pollutants but worse with CO2. CO2, of course, doesn't cause the health problems of particulate matter, but it does cause that whole global warming thing I keep reading so much about.

[ Parent ]
Larry... (0.00 / 0)
Your right. It has been out there and on the table since the beginning. While I am not endorsing it nor am I criticizing it, I am saying that at least it is a plan and it is out there for public debate.

[ Parent ]
One final thought. (for now) (0.00 / 0)
And it's this.  It's important to realize who Schweitzer is.  He's a farmer.  Originally, a wheat farmer.  Now, I don't know  how many of you have ever lived, worked, or seen a huge wheat farm operation, but it's a small city.  And it is pretty much self-sufficient, EXCEPT  for fuel. In other words, if you need something, MAKE IT!  That's just how wheat farmers are.  Their machine shops are something to behold!  Better than anything you'll find in a big city.  So, if one grows up in such an environment, necessity simply means that you build sumthin' that works!  I've seen it done over and over and over again.  If these guys couldn't improvise or fix sumthin', they would go broke.  And I think that that's who Schwietzer is.  If he sees a problem, well, he ain't gonna wait until he goes broke and loses the farm.  So he FIXES it!  And ya know, I kinda think that's not a bad way to do things.  So, cut him some slack.  He's just doin' what comes naturally.  I try to balance the guv against guys like the late K. Roos Toole.  Whenever the guv starts makin' too much sense, I pull out The Rape of the Great Plains and re-read it.  It's  kinda like the ying and yang of Montana for me.  And that's where we're currently at.  If we don't do SUMTHIN', we're gonna continue to take it in the ying yang!

issue - not personality (0.00 / 0)
Seems like whenever an issue comes up concerning Governor Schweitzer's policies it always turns into a discussion about his personality.  Whether he's a good guy, open, whatever.

But this is about a process that has nothing to do with Schweitzer other than he is pushing it as a necessary component of Montana's future.  In fact, were it possible to discuss this issue without using his name, I'd love it.  But the fact of the matter is, Brian is the governor, just like Judy Martz was the governor.  So when you talk about issues that a Montana governor is pushing, it makes sense to use his or her name.

That said, there has been little or no discussion on the real point of the article and issue, which is that this coal-to-liquids proposal is primarily intended for the use of the Department of Defense, to fuel America's burgeoning war machine -- not to put fuel in Montanans' cars, or trucks, or tractors.

The issue is whether or not it makes sense to spend billions of taxpayer dollars to subsidize the construction of these plants and whether it makes any environmental sense at all to site them in an arid region like Eastern Montana.  And finally, whether the overall pollution profile from CTL winds up getting us anywhere at all on the global warming scene.

The issue is whether or not it makes sense to subsidize megacorporations like Peabody Coal (from whom the Gov takes his "facts" on CTL) to build these kinds of plants.  And no, they won't be getting hammered together in some wheat farmer's machine shop.  This is about big business, the military-industrial complex, and a huge drain on the nation's dwindling Treasury primarily to continue to "feed the beast" of America's apparently unsatiable fuel consumption habits with a dirty, outmoded, energy source.

And finally, this is about what this means to Montana's future.  I say this puts us right back into the Coal Collar, puts corporations and the military in charge vis-a-vis the inevitable leverage on jobs and the economy, and leaves Montanans with the pollution, the drain of our aquifers, the potential problems with high-pressure injection of CO2, and  gives us nothing but a few jobs out of it.  This is economic development, not energy policy -- and even Brian admits that these days.

So, let's leave the personality of the wheat farmers behind and talk about the reality -- or surreality -- of the proposal.  And, by the way, whether it is even marginally accurate to describe it as "clean and green" which the evidence increasingly indicates is neither. 


Sorry,George. (0.00 / 0)
In the future, I'll submit my comments to you first before posting them.  BUT I STILL LOVE YA, MAN!.....now, will you share that Budwieser with me?  But seriously, George, allow me one MORE story.  And yeah, it's kinda like a personality story.  We were in Great Falls, at a campaign rally for both Schweitzer and Mark O'Keefe, another hero of mine.  The two candidates were taking questions from the audience.  I don't know how it happened, it wasn't really a question I don't think, but the topic of the Berkely Pit came up. And someone mentioned that they thought the water could be used for something since it contained so many minerals. And what happened next was incredible!  Simply incredible!  Schweitzer and O'Keefe BOTH started talking in scientific terms about how the water could INDEED be treated and put to some beneficial use!  These guys were real, they were geniune, and they were BRIGHT AS HELL!  And I was stunned!  After years of hearing marky racicrotch meander aimlessly and endlessly through lower recesses of nonsense, and judy mars, who IS as dumb as she appears, we finally had two candidates who actually UNDERSTOOD science!  I will never forget that moment.  So, George, you'll have to excuse me if I want to hear what the guv has to say on this matter.  For you see, personality does INDEED matter.  I mean, just stop and think for a moment.  Me, an avowed militant radical enviro, who's willing to listen to what Schweitzer has to say on energy issues!  How COULD that happen if personality weren't involved?  George,  I know that you have your own column and all.  But like our moron president, I gotta trust my gut on this one!  And my gut says there's not much of a viable energy policy out there except  Schweitzer's!  Does it need some tweaking?  Yep.  And that's our job.

[ Parent ]
We'll see (0.00 / 0)
Larry -

No need to apologize for anything.  I just think we ought to be talking about the issues and not always the guy.  As far as treating the Berkeley Pit water goes, well, theoretically it's possible to pull the metals out (or precipitate them with lime as they have been doing for more than 30 years in the Warm Springs Ponds), but then there's this little thing called entropy.  To be more specific, the natural state of the universe is not order, it's disorder.  Every attempt we make to order the universe takes a certain amount of energy to bring and hold together what normally wants to fall apart.  So, yes, theoretically you can clean the Berkeley Pit water.  But thanks to entropy, the amount of energy and effort necessary to do so becomes overwhelming.  The more complex the effort, the greater the energy necessary, the more "tools" required, and the vastly greater liklihood that things will break. The whole point being, what's the tipping point or the point where the energy, money, and technology necessary to accomplish the task become so significant that accomplishing  the task isn't worth it anymore?  And at what point do you burden the future with the job of maintaining the entropic effort started by this generation? 

Same goes for stuff like, say, nuclear waste.  Sure, we can encapsulate it, bury it, call it safe -- but it must be obvious that the costs to do so, which are now being borne by taxpayer dollars in places like the Yucca Mountain repository, are actually simply being "externalized" onto the backs of society at large to enable the nuclear industry to continue to exist.

Now put those concepts into the format of Schweitzer's coal-to-liquids proposals and you'll start to see my point.  Yes, it's scientifically possible to liquify coal to make  fuel.  And yes, it's scientifically possible to capture, compress, and sequester the carbon dioxide underground.  The single largest sequestration efforts right now are under the North Sea, as a matter of fact.  But what's the entropic cost compared to the result?  The result, as I wrote, is to  continue to "feed the beast" of America's gross energy consumption habit.  You have simply written this off as something that will not change and hence, endorsed the Schweitzer plan as realistic because he, too, simply rolls that assumption into his plan and comes up with an expensive, dirty, risky and highly entropic proposal without looking at the externalized costs -- such as long-term risks and on-going costs that will be passed on to future generations.

What I always wind up saying in these kinds of debates over the theoretical benefits or drawbacks of certain proposals is "we'll see."  Not only have I watched Brian's energy speeches tons of times, I have talked with him face to face on this in some detail.  So I'm not sitting somewhere just making this stuff up.  He told me to my face exactly what was going on with Dept. of Defense at his Energy Summit in Bozeman.  And he told me that he needed both subsidies and a guaranteed price for the sin-fuel (CTL) to make it work.  Now comes the energy bill and lo and behold, there are the same demands being made. What you likely don't know, however, is that Brian is a busy boy up on the hill these days trying to LOWER the carbon capture provisions of the energy bill from 75% to 65%.  Why?  Because Brian's so-called "clean and green" tax breaks for energy companies bill that died in the regular session but was jammed through the special session has a 65% requirement and Brian doesn't want the fed standard to be higher.  Sweet, ehh, old "radical environmentalist" pal of mine?  Your hero is actually trying to allow dirtier production for coal companies.  But of course most of the Montana public will never know since these kinds of lobbying efforts remain largely unreported.

Then we get back to the column in question.  IF your guy was so upright, straight-ahead, scientifically grounded, and clean and green, where was his signature on the letter to Congress from the other Western Governors?  Missing, that's where -- which is exactly what the column said.  I didn't disparage his personality, I wrote about the credibility gap that is widening between the persona he is putting out and his actions.  Hence the line "actions speak louder than words."

I don't know anyone who thinks Brian Schweitzer is dumb -- and that certainly includes me.  But being smart is just being smart -- it doesn't make you right.  Karl Rove is smart...but then again, so was The Unabomber, Ted Kacyzinski. In any event, you get the point, Larry.  Oppenheimer and his boys who put the A-bomb together were smart -- but we live on and perhaps will some day perish as a civilization or species thanks to the efforts of their incredible knowledge.

So, I make the distinction not to base judgments on how smart people are, but on the merits of the proposals those smart people make.  Right now, Brian's coal-to-liquids proposals are looking a lot less green and a lot less viable than they were a couple years back when he went on his CTL jag.  Remember when the Roundup plant was supposed to cost $1.5 billion?  That's the number given to us by BS.  Well, now he's saying more like $8 billion or more.  Entropy in action, Larry, as the real complexities and the costs of "ordering" them become more evident. 

I have laughed heartily with Brian, tossed down a pint or two at the local brewery with him, and have a pile of bill-signing photos where we are all smiling at the successful passage of legislation as it's signed into law.  I like yakking it up with him, he's funny and very bright.

But he's human, too, and to err is, after all, human.  So, let's keep it on the discussion of the issue itself, not on how smart Brian might be, and weigh it on its own merits. 

Like I said, increasingly the merits are being outweighed by the drawbacks...not the least of which is that even if you make CTL, you still wind up putting more CO2 in the air than with current fuels.  And you need water, which Brian has yet to address.  And the North Sea is a long ways away from Montana, so we need somewhere to stuff an incredible volume of CO2 where it won't wind up blowing out -- or forcing other things, like groundwater, out sometime in the future.  And we need long-term monitoring, a legal framework for liability, and the incredible complex of pipes, roads, compressors, and mines necessary to pull it off at the scale Brian is talking about.  None of those things exist yet, except for the coal mines, and only 2% of the mined lands have been fully reclaimed after three decades of strip mining.  To crank it all up to the scale Brian envisions and is pushing means a lot more mining to come with all the attendant disruptions, costs, and pollution.  Not even a self-titled "radical environmentalist" can simply blow those considerations off as an act of faith just because some wheat farmer is smart.

Holding the plans of our leaders to account is good policy and good politics.  Had Congress done the same to George Bush's Iraq and Afghanistan plans, we'd be in a lot better shape today -- as would the future generations who ultimately wind up with the deficit they didn't create as their burden to pay.  Deficits come in a lot of different forms these days and the environmental deficit from Brian's proposals would undoubtedly be passed on to future generations to pay (or deal with) so today's fuel hogs can continue to wallow in their consumption...or worse, so America's military-industrial complex can continue to wage meaningless wars for the enrichment of a few at the cost to so many.

Me, I'm not too worried.  I'll be flat out surprised if any of Brian's stuff comes to pass.  It's too expensive, it's too risky economically, and he's well behind the ball of where others with the same money-making schemes are already at (China is already building a coal gasification plant in Louisiana as we speak).  But when a guy passes himself off as "clean and gree" and refuses to sign a letter urging Congress to either help or get out of the way of state efforts to reduce greenhouse gases, I'd say someone ought to call that action into question.  That's what I did in the column.  I'm still waiting for an explanation, any explanation, for the apparent dichtomy between his professed "green" goals and his less-green actions.

We'll see.  And in the end, if I'm wrong about this, don't worry, I'll be more than happy to admit it and make amends.  What I'm wondering is what will happen if I'm right...or the Boston Globe is right...or the increasing numbers of others who are critical of the move to coal as a "fuel of the future" are right? 

We'll see, ehh?
 


Dee Plan! Dee Plan! (0.00 / 0)
OK, George, nice rebuttal.  But have you ever heard of Clinton fatigue?  Or maybe Bush fatigue?  Well, I've got I-wouldn't-do-that fatigue!  George, I think that we ALL know what we WOULDN'T do.  But it's time to start saying what we WOULD do!  And this is what Schwietzer has done.  Why do I find that appealing?  Again, because his policy isn't formulated behind closed doors with just a dick and the big energy boys!  All you say is true.  I won't dispute  that.  But it is my firm belief to JUST GET ENERGY POLICY OUT IN THE OPEN is a good thing. Let's get the discussion started!  Present the problem as it really is, show people how unsustainable the current practices are, and explain to them the options available!  I think we really need to do this.  But back to my fatigue and then I'm done with this thread.  Maybe others will want to weigh in.  George, you and me we're "I-wouldn't-do-that" kinda guys.  So, would you please explain what YOUR energy policy would be?  And that way, I can set it side by side with the guv's and compare the two.  Otherwise, we'll all just stumble along our current unsustainable course.  Let the dialogue begin!  Thanx in advance.

Montana or US energy policy? (0.00 / 0)
Larry -

No doubt we agree on the vast majority of energy issues and your point about what should we do is well worth discussing.  Unfortunately (fortunately, actually), we're off down the river in our canoe for today, camping tonight, and back tomorrow, so I'll take a rain check on the response if that's OK and get on it when we're back in town.

One question, though -- do you want my cut on what we should do for Montana energy policy or for the world/nation?  Brian has left us in the dust as he goes big time with his national, military, and global proposals, but I guess from my point of view that's really not his job -- his job is to be taking care of the needs of Montanans with the resources available to Montanans, not worrying about keeping fuel in the SUVs of LA, Chicago, and NY...to say nothing about fueling the military.  If he wants to do the national and global thing, he could have had he won his race against Conrad.  He didn't, and morphed into the Gov race and somehow, I think he really hasn't quite grasped the different roles those two posts entail.  But anyhow, you get my drift.  You define the parameters and I'm more than willing to talk about what we should and can do. 


Both I guess. (0.00 / 0)
Since we all seem to be in this thing together, and the estimates of peak oil grow shorter all the time, I guess we can't address one without the other.  Me personally, I'd foster ties with my good buddy Hugo Chavez!  But ourselves some time AND oil!

[ Parent ]
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